Are there exceptions to ATGATT?

[TPadden]

...regarding high-viz... where it is useful to be seen.

On the flip side ......

Not a big believer at all in High-Viz colors; no such thing as being seen without recognition; you are still invisible. Nothing works (neither loud colors nor loud pipes) as well as defensive and foresighted riding.

When I was working as a LEO my city did a year long study and looked at all the then current studies concerning high viz colors. They then painted all the cities safety vehicles high viz fluorescent colors. Traffic accidents increased, no one yielded or got out of the way of cop cars, ambulances, or fire engines, with lights and sirens blaring. Three years later they looked at the data and re-painted the Cop cars black and white and fire engines red.

 

[broc11]

Exactly, it's personal choice. If I am wearing jeans on a hot day with boots and a long sleeve shirt, gloves and a full face helmet--that's my business. Please don't criticize me by being an ATGATT nazi. If you saw me 30 years ago on a Harley with no helmet or shirt going by you doing 70 mph you would understand that I have come a long way with common sense. Please respect other riders personal choice and comfort level.

It's your body that's on the line so it's your own business what gear you wear,If I lived somewhere with really hot Summers I would probably not be comfortable wearing full gear,over here though we wear gear as much for weather protection as safety,
on a few very hot days touring here last Summer I wore a T shirt and ordinary jeans,it was just too uncomfortable to wear the Kevlar jeans and leather jacket those days, trick is not to crash on days like that

 

[ST1100Y]

...no such thing as being seen without recognition; you are still invisible. Nothing works (neither loud colors nor loud pipes) as well as defensive and foresighted riding...

Yep, the brain of them cage drivers look out for a "danger" to themselves, thus a other car or lager... since they "see" no car they pull right into/over you...
We simply have to acknowledge that card drivers are ignorant, yet dumb and act accordingly...

Three years later they looked at the data and re-painted the Cop cars black and white and fire engines red.

LOL! ;-)
Again I agree...
Besides the red '00 seen in the avatar, I also have a "converted" '94, covered in reflective high-viz lime-yellow foil (similar to the harlequin livery of UK EMT bikes), reflective "french-tail" (red/yellow chevrons) , pole strobe and front flashers (amber of course), and to top it a nuke yellow, high-viz jacket (genuine UK police equipment) with reflective blue/silver [MARSHAL] on the back...
So you'd think this all would help/prevent being run over? NAH! Not an iota, not at all...
I already logged 3 incidents of being almost hit, one included size 13 boot kicking in a fender panel...

Maybe changing the [MARSHAL] sign to [CAN YOU SEE ME NOW *****HOLE?!] patch would stand out more?? :lol:

 

[ST1100Y]

If I lived somewhere with really hot Summers I would probably not be comfortable wearing full gear...

Even for those hot days protective gear (like my Dainese air-flux) is avail, made of rigid mesh fabric, providing armour pads in shoulder and elbow/forearm area.
A kidney-belt with full size, breathable back/spine protector completes that... and never ride without proper gloves...

Sweating doesn't hurt...

And even in 40?C I stay relatively comfy with my long sleeve/legged functional underwear and the breathable GoreTex 2-piece on top...
OK, during summer in urban commuting I might swap the pants for a pair of jeans, but head, torso, hands and feet are always packed in protective gear...

 

[JQL]

I am of the opinion that, on fully faired bikes with a Topbox, Hi Viz and reflective only work in low light situations. At other times they aren't very effective.

Also, as has been stated previously, it depends on how much bodywork is hiding you.

Riding in a city I have noticed that, during the day, darker colours with a white helmet seem to be more noticeable. I think this has something to do with the background clutter.

The other thing I have noticed is that, from the front, HID lights are more noticeable than incandescent lights especially when combined with LED spots or fogs to give a triangle of light.

In heavy rain and low light conditions I usually wear Hi Viz as my bike is black.

 

[TPadden]

I am of the opinion that Hi Viz and reflective only work in low light situations. At other times they aren't very effective........

Much more effective .......

 

[BakerBoy]

Qj

It took me a while to figure it out, but I finally realized that it meant "All The Gear, All The Time." However, is that a mantra (it sounds cool to say), exaggeration (read most of the gear most of the time) or the code (always have all the gear all the time)?

Reason I ask is that my bike is my commuter most days. But my "trip" to work consists of 1.2 miles, 2 turns, 3 school zones, and 5 stop signs (unless heading home...same route is 7 stop signs). It is all on residential roads and takes about 4 minutes at a max speed of about 30mph. Many days this is the extent of my riding. Am I being lazy or just realistic?

I wear a full face helmet 100% of the time, and a heavy motorcycle jacket. Did that ride warrant the addition of pants, boss, etc?

Now, what are your thoughts?

 

[JQL]

I used to ride about on my CBR600 with my shotgun on my back. As it was in the country no one batted an eyelid!



The only difference was it had to be in a gun case by law.

 

[JD2002]

Much more effective .......

A couple of bumper stickers come to mind " I aim to please and I hit what I aim at." or for tailgaters " Get closer so I don't have to aim ". Yeah, I know we don't have bumpers ....... Ride Safe.

 

[Al Gully]

Here is what I pack in my saddle bag minus the detachable hood. Great for the rain, but I use it when I have to work late and have to travel home on Friday or Saturday nights when there are more of a chance of impaired drivers out there. All I can say is WOW, I really think most of the drivers think I'm a LEO. Everyone keeps their distance from me and obeys the speed limit. Passed my son as I was going to work and he was coming home, he waved to me at the last minute. I asked if he recognized me and he said at first he thought I was an police officer and he slowed down.
Try it, you might like it.

 

[dc112675]

Here is what I pack in my saddle bag minus the detachable hood. Great for the rain, but I use it when I have to work late and have to travel home on Friday or Saturday nights when there are more of a chance of impaired drivers out there. All I can say is WOW, I really think most of the drivers think I'm a LEO. Everyone keeps their distance from me and obeys the speed limit. Passed my son as I was going to work and he was coming home, he waved to me at the last minute. I asked if he recognized me and he said at first he thought I was an police officer and he slowed down.
Try it, you might like it.

Do you have a link or the manufacturer's name?

 

[Al Gully]

Do you have a link or the manufacturer's name?

Sorry, I should of added this link on my last post.
It's made by Viking.
http://www.vikingwear.com/index.php/products/fr/rainwear/viking-fr-3m-jacket.html?___SID=U

Key Features:
A light weight alternative to PVC with a high level of waterproofness (10,000+)
Stretchable, reinforced seams for better flexibility
Good resistance to Chemicals such as Animal Fats, Fish Oil, Motor Oil, and Diesel Fuel

Safety standards:
Fully compliant with CSA Z96-09 Class 1, Level FR
Meets testing method of CAN/CGSB-4.2 No.27.10 & ASTM D6413 Flame Resistance
2" 3M Scotchlite? Reflective Material in 4" Contrasting Configuration

Ideal for:
Highway and Road Work
Oil and Gas
Agriculture
Fisheries
Forestry

 

[Al Gully]

Do you have a link or the manufacturer's name?

Here is the Hi Visi rain gear I wear at work.
It's made by helly Hanson which is a good name in rain jackets

http://www.hhworkwear.com/PRODUCTS/wolfsburg-jacket

 

[ST1100Y]

I really think most of the drivers think I'm a LEO. Everyone keeps their distance from me and obeys the speed limit.

LOL! Such can already happen without any high viz added, as an ST1100 with an attached aerial, wearing a wired helmet + some farkels on the dash seem to suggest "unmarked police bike" to some ;-)

Worse with the EX UK police high viz tactical jacket I managed to organize, a white Neotec with reflective b/w checker-tape "completes" the appearance :lol:

 

[broc11]

LOL! Such can already happen without any high viz added, as an ST1100 with an attached aerial, wearing a wired helmet + some farkels on the dash seem to suggest "unmarked police bike" to some ;-)

Worse with the EX UK police high viz tactical jacket I managed to organize, a white Neotec with reflective b/w checker-tape "completes" the appearance :lol:

I see some fellas here with ex police pans,they cover them in police like reflective taping,eg blue and yellow, to be honest if I had to go that far in order to hopefully be seen by some twit who's busy talking or texting I just wouldn't ride a bike at all.
I think it can almost cause accidents because people panic when they think they see a cop car or bike and usually start braking.

 

[ST1100Y]

I think it can almost cause accidents because people panic when they think they see a cop car or bike and usually start braking.

LOL! No risk here since our LEOs wear different livery in dark blue; yellow vest only while acting in traffic (like this beemer rider who obviously got nailed there):




But as already mentioned earlier, even a high viz jacket and the bike covered in reflective lime-yellow just won't stop the impaired/ignorant from attempts to run you over...
The only working "defence" is staying focussed, ride foresighted and always expect/be prepared for the worst... thus ATGATT whenever possible...

 

[broc11]

The only working "defence" is staying focussed, ride foresighted and always expect/be prepared for the worst... thus ATGATT whenever possible...

Agreed, and maybe mount some machine guns to the fairing there is no cure for ignorant selfish drivers,just try your best to be one step ahead of them all the time, oh and happy St.Patricks day Martin do they serve Guinness in Austria?

 

[dc112675]

LOL! No risk here since our LEOs wear different livery in dark blue; yellow vest only while acting in traffic (like this beemer rider who obviously got nailed there):




But as already mentioned earlier, even a high viz jacket and the bike covered in reflective lime-yellow just won't stop the impaired/ignorant from attempts to run you over...
The only working "defence" is staying focussed, ride foresighted and always expect/be prepared for the worst... thus ATGATT whenever possible...

If people can pull out in front of a semi-truck (which they do), then they can pull out in front of a bike.

"No officer, I didn't see that 18-wheeler carrying that 40 foot pre-lit Christmas tree...It came it of nowhere! "

When you're looking at a phone/radio/mirror, there are a lot of things that you don't see.

 

[ST1100Y]

Agreed, and maybe mount some machine guns to the fairing

<sigh...> tempting though... ;-)

there is no cure for ignorant selfish drivers...

Unfortunately not... and their number is growing, daily...

oh and happy St.Patricks day Martin do they serve Guinness in Austria?

Same to you!
There a vast number of British and Irish pubs around... but since I'm a commercial driver and a rider its 0.0 for me... ;-)
But the city has illuminated some buildings/monuments with lush green

When you're looking at a phone/radio/mirror, there are a lot of things that you don't see.

Yep... that's how it goes these days...
In the job I drive a big white van (nah, not the cursed one... I'm one of the good guys :lol: ) and every day I'm newly amazed just how "invisible" such a 3 ton rig is... :roll:

 

[JQL]

Yep... that's how it goes these days...
In the job I drive a big white van (nah, not the cursed one... I'm one of the good guys ) and every day I'm newly amazed just how "invisible" such a 3 ton rig is...

I drive a 7.5 ton. 30' (9.5 metre) White and Blue RV and people don't see that either!