Banjo Washers

[STPaulK]

Really? Banjo washers have their own thread???

Well it does now and that's mostly because I am too diligent.

I am replacing the entire SMC assembly, thanks for the writeups it's going smoothly. But there is a persistent nagging theme that I need to replace the banjo crush washers that were loosened. I usually get away with reusing crush washers a few times on my oil sump. But this is brakes so let's not try to be penny foolish.

So I check prices, $3.53 for p/n 90545-300-000. There are 16 needed for the left side. Sometimes Honda will group multiple washers, bolts, etc into a single assembly number (so qty 1 is all 16 washers.) Nope, the online parts guy says it's $3.53 for one washer. He suggests going to generic, I didn't need to think twice.

My knowledge about crush washers is limited, I know there is a difference between copper and aluminum and that's about it. I am prepared to order these. Tell me if I am wrong. Thanks in advance! https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K3B599S?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

[Terminator2]

The cost for these washers is insane. I believe my new SMC (Sept 2022-82k) came with washers. I have a rebuild kit for rear caliper that came with washers (All Balls-not oem). I have not used the kit yet. Which means I have loosened and reused the rear washers without any issues. Good God, $3.53 for a *&%$ washer? Over the years, occassionally with different vehicles, I have re-used brake line washers (as long as they were not scarred) on different vehicles......never had an issue. My experience only.

 

[rogo]

I replaced my SMC earlier this year. It did not include the washers.
To replace the SMC, I was able to change it without removing L/H caliper completely.
You only need replace 4 washers for this job.

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

Maybe?

https://www.amazon.com/10-MM-Copper-Crush-Washers/dp/B01N4D8GJQ/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2K2HD1GOVTCAI&keywords=copper+crush+washer+m10+14.5&qid=1692042187&s=automotive&sprefix=copper+crush+washer+m10+14.5%2Cautomotive%2C113&sr=1-4

 

[Terminator2]

What I forgot to mention. I am wondering if re-used washers possibly introduce air-even slightly into the system.

 

[SMSW]

Aluminum is softer than copper so in theory, you should not have to torque the bolt quite as much. However, most of us simply use our wrist on crush washer/bolt combinations, so this is not really an issue. I bought a whole box of copper crush washers from Amazon and most will be in the box when I die. My suggestion is to buy what you need from either Amazon or Mcmaster.com (McMaster-Carr - a huge industrial hardware store). Their customer service is outstanding.

Copper work hardens (not sure about aluminum) but you can anneal them by heating them and either quenching them in cold water or letting them cool. I doubt either will let air into the brake system. If you are worried about that, use new ones (from Amazon or McMaster).

 

[Bozo]

Maybe try here: https://fortnine.ca/en/bolt-m10-banjo-washers

A bag of 50 for $13.62 canuck bucks ($10.12 US today).

Cheers

 

[W0QNX]

NEVER do as I do I'm crazy on things.

I've never replaced the oil drain crush washer and I've reused every brake crush washer I've ever had apart including the clutch systems washers.

I did replace the slave cylinder and i have had part of the brakes apart but i don't remember why.

I've always figured if it crushed once it will crush crunch twice (or oil 40 times).

 

[GGely]

There’s a school of thought that if you re-anneal a washer it can be reused. There’s a great tutorial on the CX500/650 forum on the topic. Never tried it myself.

For the cost of the F9 bag of washers I just go with those. I trust the source and I’m usually buying the rebuild kit there so the freight is covered. It’s a win win.

 

[Terminator2]

FWIW on Amazon August 14 2023

 

[Ron]

I have never replaced a crush washer on any thing. I'm even running without one on my oil pan plug..

It's your money, spend it however you like.

 

[Jethro]

My dealership tapesa crush washer to filter$3.00 extra.d e right. I have the top of my tool chest covered in you never know bits and pieces.Oh l know if l throw them out l will need them.

 

[STPaulK]

FWIW on Amazon August 14 2023

I was prepared to order these but they are not offered through Prime and the vendor couldn't tell me when they would be shipped (yeah, go figure, got a bad feeling about that.)

I can confirm the new SMC does not come with it's own washers.

 

[STPaulK]

I have never replaced a crush washer on any thing. I'm even running without one on my oil pan plug..

I swapped out the brake lines on a VFR for SS lines and reused all washers. One washer seeped and repeated attempts to "snug" the bolt failed. That is my one and only datapoint on a crush washer that no longer sealed.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

Maybe?

https://www.amazon.com/10-MM-Copper-Crush-Washers/dp/B01N4D8GJQ/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2K2HD1GOVTCAI&keywords=copper+crush+washer+m10+14.5&qid=1692042187&s=automotive&sprefix=copper+crush+washer+m10+14.5%2Cautomotive%2C113&sr=1-4

I've been just taking my old washers to the auto parts shop and matching them up...since I rebuilt our first GL1000 in 1991. No leaks.
USAF story...When we had to turn a job around and such washers were not available, we would heat them carefully with a propane torch...that returned the softness to a degree. Replaced with new when they became available. Again...no leaks.

 

[SMSW]

There’s a school of thought that if you re-anneal a washer it can be reused.

Its not a school of thought - its metallurgy. Copper work hardens. Flex a piece of #12 awg copper wire (romex or your choice of wire) back and forth. Eventually, it will break. If you ever hammered copper sheet to make something, after a little while, the copper starts resisting the bending and will crack. As mentioned, heat it, quench it and it is soft again. I'm not sure about aluminum, but the deformation and therefore work hardening of a copper crush washer is not as great as hammering copper or bending wire. No doubt a copper crush washer can be reused many many times.

 

[Malks]

I recently replaced the front calipers on my ST1100 and went to get the banjo bolt crush washers from my local dealer. I expected to pay a couple of bucks for each, which would be a crazy high price for a washer. Imagine my shock when the parts guy told me they were $8.51 EACH! I needed four, so the total is $34.04, plus tax for a grand total of $38.47 CDN. Wow, just wow! I bought them because I was stuck and had no other ideas where to get the proper part.

By the way, the retaining pins for the front brake pads on my ST1100 are $15.27 each. Total after tax for the pair was $34.51CDN.

 

[sirepair]

Harbor Freight has an assortment box of 80 pcs. for $7. English sizes listed, but 3/8 works fine for 10mm.
https://www.harborfreight.com/80-piece-copper-washer-assortment-67526.html

 

[STPaulK]

Well I got the Amazon ordered crush washers, which were explicitly stating they are direct replacements for 90545-300-000. Well I guess technically they fit the bolt but that is where the comparison stops. The OEM Honda washers are ~50% thicker and are plated. The knock-offs were so thin, I can already vision the deformation and cracking from these thin washers with just one 34 nm torque. Maybe they are designed specifically for one time use but no matter, didn't give me much confidence so I am reusing the old ones

 

[TipSTer]

Well I got the Amazon ordered crush washers, which were explicitly stating they are direct replacements for 90545-300-000. Well I guess technically they fit the bolt but that is where the comparison stops. The OEM Honda washers are ~50% thicker and are plated. The knock-offs were so thin, I can already vision the deformation and cracking from these thin washers with just one 34 nm torque. Maybe they are designed specifically for one time use but no matter, didn't give me much confidence so I am reusing the old ones

I could stamp you some of these crush washers Paule.