Battery going dead

[drrod]

It has been my experience that batteries only last 3-5 years (in my hands anyway). I keep them on tenders the whole time they are not being ridden. They are stored, over winter, in the bike, on a tender.

I have taken to just replacing them about every 4 years.

The other thing I have noticed is that the replacement Yuasa batteries are not as good as the OEm ones. I have had 2 that failed in less than 3 years. Anecdotal for sure, but others have said the same. So much so that I have gone the "cheap" route since they last just as long.

 

[ST Gui]

Downside is that most battery tenders don't operate with lithium batteries

They may stay in 'charge' mode instead of moving to maintenance mode and charger/tenders with a desolation mode are a definite no-no. An Li battery probably could get away with not being on a tender more often that not compared to a traditional AGM or similar battery.

BTW Battery Tender™ is teasing a new line/technology/voodoo of batteries. It looks like they've dropped their previous line of Li (LCA) batteries. So many it's just another blend— Li-Crj (lithium and cranberry juice). Or maybe it's the Mr. Fusion line.

If you're not afraid of a little spam you can sign up for email notification. Or wait. Coming soon enough.

 

[T_C]

BTW Battery Tender™ is teasing a new line/technology/voodoo of batteries. It looks like they've dropped their previous line of Li (LCA) batteries. So many it's just another blend— Li-Crj (lithium and cranberry juice). Or maybe it's the Mr. Fusion line.

Mr Fusion would be cool. But I'm more guessing they are putting in some intelligence too stop over discharge and provide balancing, copying the EarthX line.

 

[MajorTom]

It has been my experience that batteries only last 3-5 years (in my hands anyway). I keep them on tenders the whole time they are not being ridden. They are stored, over winter, in the bike, on a tender.

I have taken to just replacing them about every 4 years.

The other thing I have noticed is that the replacement Yuasa batteries are not as good as the OEm ones. I have had 2 that failed in less than 3 years. Anecdotal for sure, but others have said the same. So much so that I have gone the "cheap" route since they last just as long.

+1. Sask Battery sells the Yuasa YTZ14S for CAN$ 217, while the generic equivalent sealed AGM, CTZ14S, is CAN$ 49.50 plus shipping (as it isn't over $60). Doing the math I see no reason to purchase a Yuasa.

 

[SMSW]

Have made up my mind.

Will be fitting a new lithium battery on my baby :biker:
reviews are more favorable even if the battery is more expensive but she deserves it
Downside is that most battery tenders don't operate with lithium batteries

https://www.motopsyco.com/2016/05/13/lithium-motorcycle-battery/
https://www.tayna.co.uk/motorcycle-batteries/f/honda/st1300/

Do a search here for Shorai as well. When I did the research for my new Shorai battery, I decided to buy their charger because the other option cost around 200. Purpose built Lithium chargers have a multi pin connector and check the charge in each cell (4) of the battery and they balance them all to the same state of charge. This means that if one cell is lower and will not accept more of a charge, the other cells are discharged to that level, according to Shorai's literature. I am guessing that means that the weakest cell will then discharge along with the rest rather than shoulder more of the burden of starting your bike. The Shorai charger also has a 'store' mode. If you are not going to use the battery (winter layup), this mode discharges the battery to its optimum level of charge (60%) for the duration and keeps it there. When you are going to take the bike out of storage you hit the 'charge' button to bring the battery back to 100%. Shorai's charger cost me only $60 or so.

 

[T_C]

The Shorai charger also has a 'store' mode. If you are not going to use the battery (winter layup), this mode discharges the battery to its optimum level of charge (60%) for the duration and keeps it there.

Just FYI... this theory of best storage has never been proven or even recommended by a lithium battery cell manufacturer.

As far as balancing, there are several ways to do it. Sounds like Shorai is doing the discharge way, the cheapest and most common. You drain off the top cells to match the lowest. Apply a small charge to the battery (all cells) for a few seconds, then measure the individual cells and drain off the top ones. Keep doing this until they all measure equal. This is why it can take hours to top off a lithium battery. Bulk of the charge can be done in under an hour, then long time to do the dance and top off each cell. This way you can use relatively small wiring for the multi pin connector. You could do charging of the individual cells through the multi pin, but then you need larger wiring and more (relative) computing power to brig each cell up to equal.

 

[SMSW]

Just FYI... this theory of best storage has never been proven or even recommended by a lithium battery cell manufacturer.

As far as balancing, there are several ways to do it. Sounds like Shorai is doing the discharge way, the cheapest and most common. You drain off the top cells to match the lowest. Apply a small charge to the battery (all cells) for a few seconds, then measure the individual cells and drain off the top ones. Keep doing this until they all measure equal. This is why it can take hours to top off a lithium battery. Bulk of the charge can be done in under an hour, then long time to do the dance and top off each cell. This way you can use relatively small wiring for the multi pin connector. You could do charging of the individual cells through the multi pin, but then you need larger wiring and more (relative) computing power to brig each cell up to equal.

Does Shorai manufacture the battery or are they just branding another mfr's? Are the cells manufactured by different companies than those that assemble said cells into a 'battery'? Shorai recommends their charger - obviously a tad of self interest, and i think the Accumate charger (haven't gone back to my notes to see if it is indeed the Accumate) at a significant premium in price. Is their pushing this method of charging simiply self interest or is there a benefit to it over your standard (non sulfate whacking) battery tender (using this as a generic term - not specifically for Battery Tender brand)?

 

[Whooshka]

At this price I don't care if they only last 2 years....

https://www.batterysharks.com/Scorpion-YTZ14S-p/scor-ytz14s_m12-11.2-230-k.htm

BTW I've got 2 of them in my bikes for this the 3rd season now and they show no signs of weakening.

 

[drrod]

How long a battery lasts is just part of the equation. Not leaving you on the side of the road with a dead battery is just as important IMO. After having that happen to me on all too many occasions, I have taken to replacing the batteries according to age, not performance. Many of mine seemed to fail catastrophically. ie. worked fine one moment, dead the next. Not very often they gave me signs of dying (eg. sluggish starts). Maybe I am just cursed by the god of batteries

 

[Whooshka]

How long a battery lasts is just part of the equation. Not leaving you on the side of the road with a dead battery is just as important IMO. After having that happen to me on all too many occasions, I have taken to replacing the batteries according to age, not performance. Many of mine seemed to fail catastrophically. ie. worked fine one moment, dead the next. Not very often they gave me signs of dying (eg. sluggish starts). Maybe I am just cursed by the god of batteries

Very odd. I've always known when the battery was on it's way out. 2 signs I look for are sluggish starting and headlights get brighter/dimmer with engine revs going up/down.

 

[T_C]

Does Shorai manufacture the battery or are they just branding another mfr's?

The primary cells are definitely not being made by Shorai. I highly doubt they are even assembling the final product, probably contracting it off to another company but asking for something exclusive (case shape or top posts) to separate theirs from the competition. Assembling the lithium cells into the outer case is a considerably different production model then laying in lead acid (or agm). As this is a product that is just starting to get into stride in the mainstream, it's a lot of money to outlay to set up a brand new production line. Contract it off until the technology matures.

As far as the Accumate including the "storage' mode, well if they can sell it to you, why not? Companies sell features you don't need all the time.

Again, if charging to 60% or 80% was so much better, we'd be doing it all the time. Why would I put my battery I use every day (almost) and depend on up to 100% charge if it's getting damaged? We wouldn't. But afetr 6 months in storage, my 100% charged battery will be down to 80% and properly set for another 6 months in storage. (In reality no, I use protection and balance circuits on all my packs and there are parasitic loses from said circuits. Now my larger deep cycle LiFe battery I use when camping I do disconnect the BMS during storage.)

 

[SMSW]

Very odd. I've always known when the battery was on it's way out. 2 signs I look for are sluggish starting and headlights get brighter/dimmer with engine revs going up/down.

My ST always started at the touch of the button. The only time it needed cranking was after my winter layup (not so much) and after a 1 month layup before which I filled up w/ cheap gas and did not add Stabil. The 4 yr old battery seemed to be fine. Then I rode down to OHSTOC, and 30 miles out, after filling up w/ gas, the starter relay clicked. Waited a few minutes, and it started. Got lunch to ponder my situation and explore availability of batteries locally. Tried to start - same clicking. Waited some more minutes and she fired up. I rode to the rally and borrowed a jump start Lithium battery, and used it 6 times that weekend. Moral for me is that batteries do not always give fair warning. In the past, lead acid batts have usually exhibited weak cranking or nothing first thing in the morning, (usually at home).

 

[Whooshka]

I would take clicking of the relay twice as a sign. Kind of falls under sluggish starting, kind of. To me "catastrophic failure" would be case cracking or post breaking or major sparking or over heating, rendering the battery absolutely useless. Even with the clicking relay you could still jump start it and be on your way. Not trying to be argumentative, but to me that's not catastrophic., but that's just me.

 

[drrod]

I would take clicking of the relay twice as a sign. Kind of falls under sluggish starting, kind of. To me "catastrophic failure" would be case cracking or post breaking or major sparking or over heating, rendering the battery absolutely useless. Even with the clicking relay you could still jump start it and be on your way. Not trying to be argumentative, but to me that's not catastrophic., but that's just me.

Yeah, I might have been overly dramatic with the use of the word "catastrophic". What I mean is that the battery would function fine one minute and be completely dead the next. It has happened to me with 3 batteries. 2 of which I was able to boost to start but one I was unable to due to some internal malfunction I suppose. One of the batteries, that I was able to boost, would not take enough of a charge to so much as turn the bike over after a 50 mile ride. Had to boost it again. This battery started the bike fine until it didn't 15 minutes later. The second battery, that I was able to boost, was unable to to do more than click the relay after running the bike for an hour and would not energize the fuel system enough to bump start it.

 

[Whooshka]

Understood. That sucks. Lucky I've never experienced getting stuck like that.

 

[drrod]

Understood. That sucks. Lucky I've never experienced getting stuck like that.

That is why a booster pak is now part of my carry along although with the one battery, even that would not work. Fortunately it happened in front of the place where I was going to store it for the winter so I was able to just push it in and then just replaced the battery.
I just remembered.....had it happen a 4th time. My new (to me) Vstrom. Started fine, rode to a friends place, completely dead when I went to start it again. Not enough power to bump start. Nothing had been left on. This battery passed a load test (not sure of the protocol used) but replacing it solved the issue.
Like I said, I think I am cursed by the battery god.

 

[Whooshka]

I too carry one of these with me on week long group rides...

https://www.qvc.com/HALO-Bolt-ACDC-PortableCharger-&-Car-Jumper-with-AC-Outlet-&-Car-Charger.product.E230549.html?upsh=1&sc=E230549-CSWB&TZ=EST

About the size of a VHS tape. Can also charge phones, laptops, etc...

 

[Hogan624]

Update #2,

Lots of good debate on Batteries for the last pile of post.

The shop load tested the Battery called the battery company and as long as its passing a load test they are not willing to replace it. He talked with the tech whom installed it and he said it wasn't dropped nor was there any damages when he installed it. So I guess the the shop who sold and installed the new battery has come to the conclusion there isn't anything wrong with the battery.

So next steps were to bring it home; I left it on my bench for a week and a bit while I was away at work and the voltage was good; Multi-meter at 12.9 volts after sitting a week on the bench; I think that is a good sign.

Next I put it back in the bike and checked the parasite current draw again and it was the same as before 0.80 on the 20m scale or 823 on the 2000u scale on the multi-meter.

Performed the suggested load test on the bike; during the start voltage dropped to about 11.5 volts on the meter; I think this is good.

Next checked the charge voltage with the bike running; cold 14.2 volts; bike at operating temp (cooling fan turning on/off) 14.2 volts. Bringing up RPM to 5000 by the book had no effect on voltage readings. When the fan cut in/out there was a 0.1 change in voltage.

So it seems weird to me the battery was almost dead after 2 weeks of sitting especially as it is new. I don't know what else to do other then get a battery tender wired in and carry on with life. Shop says the battery is good; Bike side seems to meet spec.

I'm defiantly open to hearing any other suggestions for troubleshooting some one might have. However this might have concluded it self as a mystery for now.

Thanks to all that have replied!
Pat

 

[voyager]

Hello,

I recently had the shop replace the battery on my bike. I went on a 5 day trip where I experienced some weird little issues. Once or twice the electronic display dimmed out when I was starting the bike and once my trip meter zeroed out randomly. Bike was parked for a couple of weeks and when I tried to go for a ride the battery wouldn't start the bike.

Things done so far:

- Charged the battery over night on 0.75 amp setting which worked well. The battery was at 13.3 volts steady with no drop over 5 min.
- Performed the current leakage check; muti-meter in series on the negative side and a 0.8 reading with the dial set to 20m. Tolerance is 2.5 milli amps.
- Performed the charging system check; bike warm and running and headlight on high beam; multi-meter reading 14.2 VDC. elevated the RPM to 5000 with no change in voltage reading. Book says it should be 15.5 VDC.
- I'm going to pull the battery and bring it to the shop to have them do a load test.

My question is before I start removing side panels and such are there any other quick checks I can do.

Thanks in advance to all that reply
Pat
2003 ST 1300

Hi may be a bit late to reply but here in UK we have had many ST1300 bikes around 2005 models with this flat battery problem. Which can happen just soon after stopping the bike or intermittant months later. Problem causes many issues main one is dimming dash lights, flat battery (but battery is fully charged) Problem always seems to be the main multiplug sited behind the left hand glove side box. remove left fairing and expect you will find the muliplug badly corroded. We also found the clear protection boot around the plug has been fitted upside down at the factory making it a cup to collect water. Some multiplugs are badly corroded they need to be chopped out and wires connected direct. Worth a look.

 

[Redneck]

Hello,

I recently had the shop replace the battery on my bike. I went on a 5 day trip where I experienced some weird little issues. Once or twice the electronic display dimmed out when I was starting the bike and once my trip meter zeroed out randomly. Bike was parked for a couple of weeks and when I tried to go for a ride the battery wouldn't start the bike.

Things done so far:

- Charged the battery over night on 0.75 amp setting which worked well. The battery was at 13.3 volts steady with no drop over 5 min.
- Performed the current leakage check; muti-meter in series on the negative side and a 0.8 reading with the dial set to 20m. Tolerance is 2.5 milli amps.
- Performed the charging system check; bike warm and running and headlight on high beam; multi-meter reading 14.2 VDC. elevated the RPM to 5000 with no change in voltage reading. Book says it should be 15.5 VDC.
- I'm going to pull the battery and bring it to the shop to have them do a load test.

My question is before I start removing side panels and such are there any other quick checks I can do.

Thanks in advance to all that reply
Pat
2003 ST 1300

You need to check the load during starting, mine appeared good but dropped to 9.6 volts when starting. It was on its last leg with 25% life remaining and only 7 months old according to the previous owner. It was a lead acid Yuasa not glass mat. Is it a lead acid battery or glass mat? Most motorcycle battery’s warranty is only six months.