Brakes sticking

[jfheath]

I think your diagnosis of the rear master cylinder must be correct. Only the rear brake pedal operates all three centre pistons - but only the front right dragging is odd - because that piston is subject to a pressure delay. The delay valve on the front right fork leg prevents the front right centre piston from working until a certain level of pressure in the fluid is reached. The elft one operates immediately.

So riding without using the pedal was a good ploy.
If you used the front brake lever - that ONLY operates the 4 front outer pistons directly. However, when the front left caliper grabs the rotating disc, the SMC is operated and that operates the two rear outer pistons. It also does this when the brake pedal applies the front left centre piston. You cannot come to a stop without operating that SMC and the two rear outer pistons !

But at that age, getting a new SMC is no bad idea. I'm surprised it has lasted that long in N Wales.

I'm still a bit concerned that it is ony the front right that is dragging - that seems odd to me.

You have an A9. The design of the calipers changed in 2008, so your has the new design front calipers. The pad spring is different and it is impossible to indsert it the wrong way round. While you have the calipers off, turn it upside down and take a look at how it seats. Not the 4 pressure tags 2 which clip - facing up to the roof - onto the central raised block in the roof of the caliper, and the two - one on each side that press against the sides, facing down so that the bite into the metal when trying to remove them.

When you put the pads in, it is possible for this spring to become slightly dislodged. Even at rest, the blade of the spring nearest the top piston rests below the pistons front edge.
So with new pads, when the pistons are fully pushed in, do not put the pad pin in until both pads are seated correctly in the reatiner clip at the top end of the caliper. You can see it through the spokes of the wheel from the other side. When you are happy, push both pads up against the spring in the roof using the part of the pad that has the hole for the pad pin to slide through. And then hold them in place with the pad pin. With older pads, the pistons are usually not pushed in as far, and the above behaviour cannot happen.

If you don't do this with new pads, it is possible for the pad spring the rock to one side, and part of it gets sandwiched between the piston and the back of the pad. Which makes your brakes behave in a very peculiar way. Don't ask me how I know this. And don't mention the Furka Pass.

 

[core-aggie]

Nice graphic of our brake system on that post ... and nice write up of their problem and solution
.

Hmm. Now where have I seen that graphic and some of those photos before ? Not even a mention of st-owners or jfheath was given.
I may need to call in and have a word

That thread DOES mention this forum.

--- quote ---
Reading ST-owners forum and an anecdote from our own Duc2V4, simply cleaning the "green filter" or rebuilding the SMC doesn't solve the problem. Honda technician on ST-owners forum, Igofar, recommends replacing the SMC rather than trying to clean it or rebuild it. So, that's what I did.
--- end ---

They also state they're not sure where they found the diagram, and potentially blame it on a post from "Courtuk's post" ... so chase down Courtuk

Sorry if I opened a can of worms - simply posted the thread as a reference to show consistency

 

[easy rider]

yesterday I tested pulling on the left calliper to activate SMC and pads stuck on right calliper and this morning riding out right brake was stuck and catching as i was riding so it must be that SMC. It's freed up now and i can move the bike again.
I must say when riding and using front brake lever i have stopped and checked the discs for temperature and the right one is hot left one cool i am beginning to wonder if the left calliper is doing much at all. Would not be suprised if my right disc has started to warp with getting so hot so that will probably need changing also once we fix the issue. Be happy when parts arrive so we can get this taken apart and sorted.

 

[jfheath]

This behaviour is still odd. The way that it described is far from typical of an smc problem.
But as you say, it may be the rear master cylinder.

Before doing anything else, just make sure that your front wheel has been installed properly. You can't do this by just looking. Check by undoing and redoing. The reason being that the distance between the forks at the front axle is not fixed. If the wheel has been installed incorrectly this will affect the position of the calipers in relation to the discs. ie brake drag.

And just to be sure - the right hand side of the bike is the brake lever side.
The left side of the bike is the clutch lever side
Just in case you are describing the sticking right hand caliper as if you are looking from the front.

Video animation, notes and pdf on correct front wheel install are available here

Article [13] - ST1300 - Maintenance - Front & Rear Wheel Install and Front Axle Animation | ST1300 Articles

Animated sequence to show the correct procedure when installing the front wheel into the forks of a Honda ST1300. The right hand side of the bike is the side with the brake lever. Left is the clutch lever side. This is the convention used in the Honda manuals. The video and the photo below...

www.st-owners.com

 

[ad.hom]

Easy, my friend, you're in North Wales, the same as me.

Find a new garage/mechanic

I presume you don't use Woods (now Completely Motoring) in Abergele. Give Keiran/Will a call. Tell them "Dave, with the red Pan, told me to talk to you about sticking brakes." They fixed this exact issue on my 02 last December - it was a replacement SMC required (the rebuild kits don't fix the problem).

Failing that, if you want to save money by doing the work yourself, call Colwyn Bay Honda and ask for the parts desk. He'll know immediately what parts you need and they're happy to post them out to you.

 

[easy rider]

Easy, my friend, you're in North Wales, the same as me.



I presume you don't use Woods (now Completely Motoring) in Abergele. Give Keiran/Will a call. Tell them "Dave, with the red Pan, told me to talk to you about sticking brakes." They fixed this exact issue on my 02 last December - it was a replacement SMC required (the rebuild kits don't fix the problem).

Failing that, if you want to save money by doing the work yourself, call Colwyn Bay Honda and ask for the parts desk. He'll know immediately what parts you need and they're happy to post them out to you.

I used to go to Hunts in Manchester before covid i think they are now a Yamaha dealer now, they always looked after my bike and they did a great job, it was only really because of covid i have-not been back plus its far away and i am not getting any younger especially when travelling to Manchester in the winter.

When they closed during lock down i ended up having to find someone local to help me as i was still on road and to be fair you could not even get an MOT back then nothing was open.
So i use a small local garage now and they have completed my water pump and replaced my clutch also while the front of the engine was open it made sense to do the clutch also.
Fuel tank replacement due to rusted overflow pipe and fuel pump as the bike was cutting out on low fuel so overheating pump which once cooled bike would start again so replaced pump been fine since. It's just these brakes that seem to be a sticking point .
When my parts arrive i may be open to another garage looking at this as a fresh pair of eyes it never hurts. I live in wrexham gwersyllt so a trip down to Abergele may be worth a look i just want my brakes working.
The right disc is constantly getting hot left disc is always cool which makes me wonder if its doing anything at all on the left.
If the SMC is activated it does seem to make things much worse.

Tested brakes again yesterday

removed right pannier spin rear wheel gently push on brake pedal stops wheel and frees up fine.
push down hard on brake pedal wheel sticks and front right brake without SMC sticks badly
pulling on left calliper to activate SMC also causes right brake to lock on.

possibly pressure building up in the lines and i also note my front lever a month back went soft so air in the lines, garage bled brakes and it was fine no more sticking brakes until recenltly.

I think the air was in the lines from when they did the master cylinder rebuilds which clearly made things worse as i went from a rear wheel sticking to front right sticking and rear wheel sticking.

Freed brakes up again after testing and wheels run free except slight rubbing on front right disc which is causing the disc to still get hot.
manually move front wheel it moves free then and sticks as you move it around at a certain point so possibly warped disc with heating up so much as well.

so for now carful braking front with front lever.

Once the parts arrive and i decide who is working on it we should be in a better place.

As for the wheel being fitted correctly i have always trusted the garage with this so will need to check this.

My bike is my daily transport so do the garage in Abergele offer a courtesy bike I know some dealers do I may give them a phone.
Just need a fresh pair of eyes and my brakes working again.

I am no expert i can do some things but i leave big jobs to the garage though i do like to learn and to be fair back in the old days the dealer did most things then as i began to learn how to take the bike apart i started fitting most things myself except wheels and brakes.

Thanks for your help!

 

[ad.hom]

My bike is my daily transport so do the garage in Abergele offer a courtesy bike I know some dealers do I may give them a phone.

Yes they do. It might be the YZF 600, but they also have a 900cc Scrambler that's usual job is long term loan. IIRC, it's £12/day for a loaner bike, but if I get a lot of work done, they drop the fees for the loaner.

One of the spanner monkeys is an ex Honda guy, 25yr service as a Master Mechanic for Honda. It's why my bike goes there and no-where else. There's a guy in Deeside that I hear good things about, but never used him.

I'm in Ruthin, and while I have electrical issues on my 02 at the moment, if I can be of any help, I'm on the RAN list.

 

[easy rider]

Yes they do. It might be the YZF 600, but they also have a 900cc Scrambler that's usual job is long term loan. IIRC, it's £12/day for a loaner bike, but if I get a lot of work done, they drop the fees for the loaner.

One of the spanner monkeys is an ex Honda guy, 25yr service as a Master Mechanic for Honda. It's why my bike goes there and no-where else. There's a guy in Deeside that I hear good things about, but never used him.

I'm in Ruthin, and while I have electrical issues on my 02 at the moment, if I can be of any help, I'm on the RAN list.

Perfect this sounds like they will be able to do the job and the courtesy bike is ideal hunts in Manchester used to supply me a loan bike and they used to do the same as i was regular they waived the fee, either way i can take my bike in and hopefully get it fixed Abergele is not that far. should not have messed with the brake pedal right disc was locked solid this morning could not wheel her out of the garage.
Its starting to get me down as its being going on for ages and if it was just a summer ride out it would not be a big issue but i need her to get to work. Thanks so much for your help parts are being dispatched this Thursday so early next week should arrive from holland. Will give these guys a call you're a star thank you.

 

[easy rider]

Yes they do. It might be the YZF 600, but they also have a 900cc Scrambler that's usual job is long term loan. IIRC, it's £12/day for a loaner bike, but if I get a lot of work done, they drop the fees for the loaner.

One of the spanner monkeys is an ex Honda guy, 25yr service as a Master Mechanic for Honda. It's why my bike goes there and no-where else. There's a guy in Deeside that I hear good things about, but never used him.

I'm in Ruthin, and while I have electrical issues on my 02 at the moment, if I can be of any help, I'm on the RAN list.

Booked in on Saturday 22nd in Abergele to drop off bike ready to work on Monday morning, pick up Monday afternoon or Tuesday.
Just need parts to arrive in time now.
Feeling more positive now thanks again really appreciate your help dave. will keep you updated!

 

[ad.hom]

Booked in on Saturday 22nd in Abergele to drop off bike ready to work on Monday morning, pick up Monday afternoon or Tuesday.
Just need parts to arrive in time now.
Feeling more positive now thanks again really appreciate your help dave. will keep you updated!

No problem bud. Your only issue might be if they don't have parts in for whatever it needs, some times parts for my 02 have taken a few days to arrive, but Will is yet to actually charge me full price for anything (eg, if you end up waiting 4 days for parts, they'll probably not charge you for the loaner bike, no promises of course).

Additionally, if you're having issues and don't want to ride yours, they have a van and can come pick the bike up from you (for a fee per mile)... or I have the number for a guy that does bike deliveries, and he's picked mine up and taken it to Abergele when Will was ill. Feel free to let me know if you want me to PM the phone number to you. Decent guy and knows what he's doing.

Other than that, if I've sorted my electrical gremlins, I might see you out and about on the 22nd.

PS, the 900 scrambler, once you're used to it, is a fun little machine. But it's speedo is off by a little more than 10% unless they've fixed it since I told them about it. But at least it's wrong in the direction that won't cause points.

 

[easy rider]

No problem bud. Your only issue might be if they don't have parts in for whatever it needs, some times parts for my 02 have taken a few days to arrive, but Will is yet to actually charge me full price for anything (eg, if you end up waiting 4 days for parts, they'll probably not charge you for the loaner bike, no promises of course).

Additionally, if you're having issues and don't want to ride yours, they have a van and can come pick the bike up from you (for a fee per mile)... or I have the number for a guy that does bike deliveries, and he's picked mine up and taken it to Abergele when Will was ill. Feel free to let me know if you want me to PM the phone number to you. Decent guy and knows what he's doing.

Other than that, if I've sorted my electrical gremlins, I might see you out and about on the 22nd.

PS, the 900 scrambler, once you're used to it, is a fun little machine. But it's speedo is off by a little more than 10% unless they've fixed it since I told them about it. But at least it's wrong in the direction that won't cause points.

My parts are on the way being dispatched from CMSL in Holland i use them for all my parts so should be here early next week ready to take bike in next Saturday. Parts out for delivery SMC Plus new boot and rear master cylinder will get them to check callipers full brake bleed and see where we are from there. i had good conversation with a guy called Gary at Abergele yesterday so feeling positive.

Hope to see you on the road my friend summer is nearly here hopefully weather starts to get warmers soon!

 

[ad.hom]

Gary runs the workshop, and knows his onions.

 

[easy rider]

I have my ST1300 back from Abergele and i must say i am very impressed they have done great job, my bike feels and rides great they even sorted my sticky throttle. Needed Two new front discs Honda pads back and front new seals plus slider pins new rear master cylinder and new SMC and up to now its running great. very professional garage and i will definitely will be back here regularly now.
I have been trying to get my brakes fixed at my previous garage since October and its just been made worse so a huge thank you to Completely Motorcycles Abergele five star job. Dave thanks for recommending the garage very happy.

Its that good that when sitting on the bike and rolling out of the garage i had to pull the brake lever to stop myself rolling down my path.


Thanks for all your help and comments everyone its always appreciated.

best wishes

Martin