Carb off... carb on question

[IpswichST]

Dont want to hijack anyone's thread so here is my own. Couple of questions about actually taking the carbs off... then putting them back on.

1- First, Ive removed everything EXCEPT the throttle cables. How do you do that?

2- Loosening the carb boots I have noticed that the clamp screws were replaced with hex cap screws. Thats fine.. BUT... when I started to unscrew a couple I noticed that the bottom clamp actually spun when I put pressure on it... they were not tight. And then I noticed it did the same on all of the clamps. Hmmm.. now that cant be good.. right?

3- Im a little nervous about actually taking the carbs off... Taking anything apart is easy... putting them back on... could be trouble. Ive read posts... should I just go for it... and learn from doing it? I mean, are they that hard to put back on?

If you've read my other thread... my stumble is kinda still around but not as bad. Im thinking that there must be something in the carbs since I have run seafoam through a tank of gas. For peace of mind I think I just want to eliminate the carbs... clean them up. So many have posted how well their bike runs after a good cleaning.

Thanks

 

[Mark]

I took the cables off by loosening the 2 bolts holding the fitting on...
You can label the cables R and L to help put them back in right, although I don't think they fit wrong...

Just go ahead a pop them off.. they'll be *really* hard to get back in; but, hey... that's why they pay you the big bucks!
Seriously... they will go back in; but, you'll have to set one side into carb boots and the other side will be a struggle.

I found loose carb boot clamps too; but, they are all tight now...

 

[JPrieST]

Dont want to hijack anyone's thread so here is my own. Couple of questions about actually taking the carbs off... then putting them back on.

1- First, Ive removed everything EXCEPT the throttle cables. How do you do that?

2- Loosening the carb boots I have noticed that the clamp screws were replaced with hex cap screws. Thats fine.. BUT... when I started to unscrew a couple I noticed that the bottom clamp actually spun when I put pressure on it... they were not tight. And then I noticed it did the same on all of the clamps. Hmmm.. now that cant be good.. right?

3- Im a little nervous about actually taking the carbs off... Taking anything apart is easy... putting them back on... could be trouble. Ive read posts... should I just go for it... and learn from doing it? I mean, are they that hard to put back on?

If you've read my other thread... my stumble is kinda still around but not as bad. Im thinking that there must be something in the carbs since I have run seafoam through a tank of gas. For peace of mind I think I just want to eliminate the carbs... clean them up. So many have posted how well their bike runs after a good cleaning.

Thanks

1. IIRC they have nuts on both sides of the bracket. Loosen them and you will have to pull the slack toward the carbs to get the ends out. EDIT: I removed the carbs before taking the cables loose as it is just easier to get to them that way.

2. The boots get compressed by the clamps and harden. Good idea to replace them if they no longer feel rubbery, or have any sign of cracking. Yes over time the clamps will seem to have loosened, but I'm more inclined to think the boots have shrunk. Don't quote me!

3. Just go for it. You've gone this far! When you put them back on, a very light coat of petroleum jelly on the inside of the boots will help a lot. Put the two on one side in, then go to the other side. I found that a quick, sharp downward shove worked best for me, and I felt them 'pop' into the boots.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[IpswichST]

I removed the carbs before taking the cables loose as it is just easier to get to them that way.

I was thinking of this myself

Im sure Ill go for it. Ill keep reading and looking for other's experience. Actually, I found a thread where Mark listed pretty concisely the procedure. I have also read something about a broom handle and a rope? The broom handle is to pry... Is the rope to hang myself when I get frustrated?

 

[JPrieST]

I was thinking of this myself

Im sure Ill go for it. Ill keep reading and looking for other's experience. Actually, I found a thread where Mark listed pretty concisely the procedure. I have also read something about a broom handle and a rope? The broom handle is to pry... Is the rope to hang myself when I get frustrated?

Yeah, the broom handle works well to pry the carbs up. Do it from the rear, prying over the fuel tank area. Find a spot between the carbs that does not interfere with any of the linkages, etc. using the frame cross member as the fulcrum and they will pop right up.

Not sure about the rope though. Your idea works for me!

 

[Slasher]

I used a pry bar to pop my carbs off. It's really easy to do with the gas tank removed. Then you just use the frame as a leverage point and carefully pry up on the carbs. I recommend replacing the boots too. They are like $8/ea and make assembly that much easier. To remove the throttle cables take the Phillips screw out of the bracket then loosen the nuts on either side of the bracket to release the cable.
I put a colored zip tie on the upper cable to know that one goes on top during reassembly.

 

[Jim Van]

This is how I did it and it worked well :

Pop the carbs off the rubber "donuts" first, before disconnecting the throttle cables. Get a long standard size screwdriver and loosen just the upper four clamps at each carb donut. I counted about 12 half turns CCW for each.

Then remove the two breather hoses from the plastic "T" connectors on each side of the carbs ( left side & right side) . Then make DARN CERTAIN the two plastic "T" connector on the left & right side are pointed DOWN. IF they aren't, they could crack during the next step - don't ask me how I know this can happen !!! Learn from my mistake. Then take a pry bar and use the small frame tube adjacent to each side of the carb assembly to pry up on the TRAY mounted above the carbs. I wouldn't use a wooden handle or anything to pry on the carbs themselves. I think that is asking for problems. Not necessary since the TRAY can be used to pry on and apply force to the carbs via the TRAY. It might take some force to get the carbs to pop, especially if the donuts are old & hardened. Once the carbs pop, you can pull them up and rotate CW a bit and now the two screws are easily accessed to remove the bracket that the throttle cables are mounted. Don't need to remove the cables from the bracket. Once the bracket screws are off, you will have plenty of slack to remove the throttle cables from the round thingy that they slip into.

I recommend replacing the donuts if they are not nice & pliable. They aren't that expensive. I think about $12 each. You want a good seal for good idling & running. When re-installing, coat the upper ends of the donuts and the carb flanges with a light coat of silicone lube ( dielectric grease ). Then, concentrating on the two carbs on one side, push down with a steady force on the tray and those two carbs should fairly easily drop down in place. Then "play around" with the position of the other two carbs - make sure they are aligned with the donuts, and then give another steady push. They should seat without too much trouble. Then re-tightened the clamps, of course.

Good Luck !! This worked great for me several times. I cleaned the carbs last winter & replaced the slide diaphrams and this winter I replaced the needles & seats. BTW, at 54K miles the carbs were really clean, including the bottom of the float bowls. Change that fuel filter often !

 

[IpswichST]

Ok.. I popped the carbs off. Wasnt really that hard but I have to say I was a little nervous. This bike is one toy that I dont want to mess up.

I loosened all the clamps. I wanted it to come off easily. I removed the gas tank as it also was easy to do and the few extra steps made the removal that much simpler.

Once the carbs were off I started to look around. Attached are 3 pics with my comments.

First, where the carbs attach to the engine there are the 4 ports. The vacuum hoses at the base... those are where I would attach a carb sync tool?


Next, you can see that there is a really worn out stopper on one tube. Im guessing that may have contributed to my bike running a little poor? Or maybe not? Also, notice a screw was missing from the slider cover


And finally, I popped a bowl off to look inside. Here is probably where I need to disassemble a part of 2 and clean them out. I just want people's opinion what I should do. As stated on the picture... I dont want to go deep into something if I dont have to. Just playing it cautious here. All comments welcome!



Thanks! My goal is to hopefully clean these carbs up and put it all back together and have it run as smooth as silk!

 

[Basic]

Seems to me that you are doing well so far.
- Noticed you have the boots still on the carbs after removing the carbs? I understand that specially when mounting them, the boots should be placed first and then fit the cabs blok. Trouble should be expected when placing the boots on the carbs first.
Picture 1 - Yes, those four hoses are for carb sync.
Picture 2 - Those carb boots are known to cause problems if the fit isn't perfect. So, when in doubt, replace that set.
- That cap is not present on my European model, but for sure, it will have caused some unwanted air leak. May have been your problem. Others may shed more light on it's specific function.
- Those missing screws are also a nice find to fix, but while you are at it, make sure to take these caps off to inspect the membranes below. Any crack in them will cause loss of power at higher speeds.
Picture 3 - Regarding #1, #3 and #4, Some will advise to take them out for preventive cleaning. I don't, unless I should have reason to suspect one of them is clogged. Though I have no experience with it, read that it is possible to break the housing whilst unscrewing or tightening them, in which case the complete block needs replacement.
- #2 might be reason for checking. I will take off all four bowls and compare the float level. With the carbs upside down, the floats should all be in the same position. Though there should be no reason for one being in a different position, if so, the result would be a different float level and therefore a different mixture.

Coming Thursday, I will start work on replacing my own carbs. Currently having troubles with fuel economy. Carb synchronisation isn't stable with me. Likely, there is some kind of an air leak, so all rubbers will be replaced. Complete carburettor blocks can be found relatively cheap these days, which is why I obtained a set that was known to be from a good and econimic running bike and prepared it for exchange. Probably that exchange is not necessary, but I feel more comfortable haven the spare at hand.
Like mentioned above, I noticed that carb sync isn't stable with my current set. To make sure the sync is basically OK, I checked the openings with a calliper. When mounted, the vacuum tool should read equal values.

Make sure that with all the handling of your carbs, you do not turn the mixture screws. On the "new" set, I made note of their settings, so they can be positioned to original if wrong. I however plan to check the mixture with the colortune after mounting the carbs.

All the best, Rob

 

[IpswichST]

Ok... I pulled all the carb bowls, pulled everything apart inside and cleaned it all up. I used compressed air to blow everything out and put it all back together. I did see crap inside the "slow jet" of one carb. Everything else looked clean

question... Is there anything else I should dismantle and clean before I put it back? The slider diaphragms looked fine.

 

[Mark]

I used a can (might have been 2) of carb cleaner and sprayed all the varnish off... Just saying...

 

[Basic]

There are quite a few rubber parts on a carb and I wonder whether that carb cleaner will leave them intact. Don't fancy taking all and everything apart to use this kind of stuff.

Rob

 

[c130flteng]

I used Seafoam spray cleaner for the varnish. It is safe for the rubber and does a good job with a little brass wire brush.

 

[IpswichST]

Ok.. as previously mentioned I pulled the carbs (pulled the gas tank.. a must! and easy to do. Popped the carbs up with some simple prying. Not that bad at all), pulled apart some basic pieces of them without going super deep (actually, I dont think I could have take anything else off.. I think I did it all) and cleaned it all up. I did find some gunk in there, cleaned and blew everything out. And Monday I held my breath and put the carbs back on. Honest... wasnt that bad. Pressed on the 1 and 3 side then, making sure everything was lined up I pressed 2 and 4 down. Thought they were seated but wanted to make sure and sure enough with one more firm push... POP.. they seated in nicely (glad I checked!). Doing this carb clean was a great experience and helped me understand what makes up the whole carb system.

Next I connected the fuel and other hoses.. and prepared to spark her up. Hmmm.. why wont she start? No fuel pump cycling... Ahhh... forgot to connect that fuel connection on the side of the tank. I mention this because its important to remember everything... all these systems make up the bike and if you forget one you may end up breaking down your project again to see what you missed. Fortunately for me that wire was right there and I just plugged it in and was ready to go.

She started up and in my mind ran much better. She is a little harder starting that I would like but she does start and runs better. None of those symptoms are present... YAY! I want to sync the carbs now and go for a nice good ride to really test her. But I think that my problem was the carbs and some gunk in them...not to mention possibly those caps I pictured which were pretty deteriorated.

Ive got a full tank, new plugs, hopefully my carbs are clean and put back together properly, and after I sync them I should be good. Next Im going to check my gas mileage. If all goes well then hopefully all I need to do is RIDE!

 

[Basic]

Congratulations on a job well done!
You are not the only one making mistakes when putting all back together.
When all was back in place, I dropped that metal part holding the choke cable. It managed to fall under the rubber mat below the carbs. No way to find it without removing it all again. Left it there and made a new part.
Then, test driving the bike, all went well, until the next day on the freeway.... Above 100 km/h; No more fuel... That must be the the fuel shut off valve membrane which I checked! Opened it up and yes, it is possible to put in the membrane slightly off, with the result of a small leak. Placed it back carefully and now all is well.

Grts, Rob

 

[IpswichST]

well... I finally balanced my carbs. Had to make my own Manometer (my BIL has one but he forgot to bring it the other day... so I made one with some clear tube and some tranny fluid... crude but worked)... and when I took it for a test ride she appeared to ride pretty nice! I will pull it apart and use a store bought manometere but for the time being I think it is pretty close.

Over all I think I have solved my issue. Thanks to everyone for your help!

 

[Mark]

Congrats on the 'smoke' test!

 

[JPrieST]

When it comes to manometers, crude is as good as store bought. The store bought may be easier to use but will be no more accurate. I wouldn't do it over until it needs syncing again. Good job!

well... I finally balanced my carbs. Had to make my own Manometer (my BIL has one but he forgot to bring it the other day... so I made one with some clear tube and some tranny fluid... crude but worked)... and when I took it for a test ride she appeared to ride pretty nice! I will pull it apart and use a store bought manometere but for the time being I think it is pretty close.

Over all I think I have solved my issue. Thanks to everyone for your help!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[CODEMAN1210]

I suggest buying new pilots, after all that work, only to find you didnt clean them out good enough, dont ask me how i know!!!!!

 

[day004]

When re-installing the carbs is it better to have the insulators on the carbs or the motor? Or maybe one side motor one side carb???