Hi, do you think it would be ok to use non oem parts to refurbish the forks and head bearings? I am looking at parts from wemoto.com
http://www.wemoto.com/amend/
http://www.wemoto.com/amend/
Changing fork seals... get springs too?
- Thread starter rcb
- Start date
I've used nothing but aftermarket fork oil seals (not sure if you're confusing them with the dust seals, which rarely need replacing) and have had no problems. For steering head bearings I went with aftermarket tapered roller bearings like everyone else here, and since the guy who distributes them lives a few minutes from my house, they were easy to find. Not sure what is available in Europe, Martin (ST1100Y) might be able to help answer that. Never had to replace the other parts you're asking about, so won't comment on those.
Thanks, I will drop the dust seals from the order then,the head bearings on that list are by 'all balls USA' the other parts are the fork bushes,which I think I will replace and not sure if they were ever done as I am the second owner of the bike, but at 41,000 miles I think it's a good idea to replace them whilst I have her torn apart.
I am going to install hyperpro fork springs as well, as recommended by Martin(ST1100Y)
I installed a new wilbers 640 last week and can't get over the difference in handling,though I am comparing to a totally kaput oem shock which I have to consider also.
ST1100Y
Site Supporter
Not sure about Ireland, but besides David Silver as source for OEM parts I think Louis might be an option for mail ordering 3rd party/vendor spares; fork seal kit: http://www.louis.at/_10d879e0e132636c9988ecc87a335c78df/index.php?topic=artnr_gr&artnr_gr=10042180&anzeige=0&typ_id=ST1100ABS&ADTRACTIONSLOT=detail_xsord , dust cover kit: http://www.louis.at/_10d879e0e132636c9988ecc87a335c78df/index.php?topic=artnr_gr&artnr_gr=10042050&typ_id=ST1100ABS , and their tampered steering head bearing kit: http://www.louis.at/_10d879e0e132636c9988ecc87a335c78df/index.php?topic=artnr_gr&artnr_gr=10051190&typ_id=ST1100ABS . They also offer a fork seal driver: http://www.louis.at/_10d879e0e132636c9988ecc87a335c78df/index.php?topic=artnr_gr&artnr_gr=10003457&lang=en (don't know about its fit or quality though...) Once apart I'd check the fork tubes for any discolorations (like bluish lines/alongside marks) or any pitting due to gravel hits (best for this is to take a cheap pantyhose and rub it gentle over the for tube surface, this fabric will catch/rip on any damaged point); you might also roll them on a flat table plate to check if their bend.
Last edited:
The dampening orfices get enlarge over years of oil forced thru the small openings caused from friction. Go to a 10w or 15w fork oil after totally clean internally. No actual NEED for fancy progressive springs, unless they are badly sagged, which is very doubtful. OEM fork seals IS your best option for durability, even tho many use aftermarket fork seals. I found this out many a decades ago on moto-x bikes, and street bike are no different. Quality rules in this case, and worth the slight added expense. The anti-dive valves seem to be often neglected, for whatever reasonI haven't a clue, but alot of times cause poor load dampening because they are all gunked up........just advice from experience.Just suggesting to save ya' some bucks that could be better used for riding fuel.
Thanks Martin,I hope to get at this next week or so,the front end doesn't feel that great now compared to the rear,though that could partly be my imagination kicking in,just feels a bit 'squirrely' in corners.
I checked the head bearings with the bike on centre stand,front end jacked up, side to side the head bearings feel smooth,but catching the bottom of the fork tubes and rocking them forward and back, theres about a 1/4 inch of play, I suspect this is coming from the head bearings being worn?
I won't know the condition of the fork bushes or springs till the forks are apart.
Thanks Brant, the oem seals are a good bit more expensive, though I know from experience in other things, the old rule, 'buy cheap buy twice'
Last edited:
Brant's advice is valid, but I've never noticed any difference in fork seal lifespan between the OEM set that came in the bike and the aftermarket ones I replaced them with. I will also say that I learned a long time ago that changing the oil frequently is a lot easier than dismantling the forks to change the seals after the dirty oil causes them to leak, so perhaps my good fortune has had to do with that strategy moreso than the quality of the seals I use. But visually they all look pretty much the same to me.
Forgive the stupid question but don't you have to dismantle the forks to change the oil too? LOL you can tell I'm not much of a mechanic!
Well, its a matter of degree and tools required, but since you asked it might be enlightening for you to learn the differences since I think you're planning on changing your seals.
On the non-ABS ST models, there's a small screw at the bottom of the fork tube that can be removed to drain the old oil out, but I think the ABS models lack that screw. In theory you could pump out the old oil with the forks on the bike through those little screw holes, but that makes a big mess so its not recommended anyway. So let's say you're going to remove the forks from the bike to drain the oil, now you just take off the fork caps and pour the old oil out of the top. Pump them a few times, then a few more times, to get all the old oil out, let them sit a few minutes, pump them a few more times. If you happen to have the non-ABS model, which you don't, with the screw removed the oil will squirt out the bottom a bit better than pouring out the top, so you can get the old oil out from both ends. Now its time to add the new oil back, unless you are planning on changing the seals.
If you are replacing the oil seals there's a few more steps involved. Take a look at a parts microfiche for the forks to help illustrate the parts involved in this next discussion. The next step is to remove the dust seal on the top of the bottom tube by prying it out with a screwdriver. Then remove the circlip that holds the oil seal in place using needle nose pliers. Now go to the bottom of the fork and there's an allen head screw that holds the fork assembly together, I seem to recall its an 8mm allen. So get your 8mm allen bit out of the toolbox, and you'll immediately notice its too short to fit through the hole in the bottom of the fork and fit into the allen head bolt. So now you either have to go buy a long 8mm hex bit, or make one from a 8mm allen wrench you happen to have laying around by cutting off the L part of the allen wrench and inserting the long straight part into an 8mm socket. Nothing to cut it with, then go buy the long 8mm bit. When you return you are ready to break loose the bolt on the bottom. Put the fork in a vise, or if you don't have a vise then hold it on a table as best you can. Or, put it back in the triple clamp to hold it. If you're lucky the bolt will break loose when you torque on it. If you're unlucky it will just spin and not make any progress because the part it screws into is able to spin inside the fork tube. If that happens then you just get out your air tools and hit it with a quick blast on an air impact wrench. If you don't have air tools, then off to the shop to get them to break the bolt loose for you. Also, if you put the spring back in the fork, and put the top cap back on, the pressure of the spring on the fork inner parts might be enough to hold it steady to break the bolt loose with hand tools, so that's worth one last try before taking it to someone with air tools.
Ok, now just pull the top tube out with a quick pull, and the forks will come apart and the oil seal will come out as part of the top tube because there's a big metal washer that it sits on that will yank it out of the lower tube as you pull the fork sections apart, and also the top bushing will come out with it as well. (There's another bushing at the bottom of the fork that could be replaced while you're in there, but let's ignore that for now) Take the bushing and oil seal off of the fork slider. Either use the old bushing, or if you have a new one ready put that around the upper fork slider, and put it all back into the lower tube. Now for the fun part of putting the bushing back into the hole in the lower fork tube. I don't know if there's a tool for this, but picture a large circular "C" shaped ring, and a hole just barely the same diameter once the opening of the "C" is closed to make an "O". That's what you're trying to do with the bushing, compress it enough to close off the opening, and get it to slide down into the hole bored into the lower fork tube that accepts it. The problem is because of the lower fork tube being in the way all around the perimeter, its hard to get anything in there to compress it without knocking it sideways a bit so it won't slide down into the hole properly. With a bit of trial and error it eventually goes in, but I've never seemed to find a consistent technique that works on the first try. A hose clamp might seem like the kind of tool you need to help out, but I'm not sure that there's enough clearance to use it. I've always just tapped around the perimeter with a small screwdriver or wooden rod (because you don't want to ding the top fork tube by hitting it with anything metal, more on that in a minute) and eventually it goes in, but it takes a while. Once its in tap it down flush with the top of the lower tube, and put the flat metal washer back in on top of it.
Now put your new fork seal in by sliding it over the top of the tube and down into the top of the fork lower tube. If you have a fork seal driver, put that over the fork seal and drive it into the lower fork tube. If you don't have a driver, take the old seal and put it on top of the new seal. Then tap down on the old seal with a wooden dowel or other non-metal object so you don't ding the upper fork tube as you pound the new seal into the lower fork tube. Work your way around the seal circumference a little at a time, pounding each section a little deeper at a time. When just a couple of mm of the old seal is visible above the lip, pull it out with a small screwdriver and take a look at the slot in the tube wall where the circlip sits above the oil seal. When you get the oil seal down far enough into the lower tube so that the entire circlip slot is visible, you're done driving the seal, and you can put the circlip back in place and reinstall the dust cover.
Last edited:
Thanks for that Dwalby,
You certainly know your stuff!! So to just change the fork oil then seems relatively easy,open the fork tops,pour them out,and refill with the correct amount of oil as per the Haynes manual.
Since fitting the new shock the front end definitely feels dodgy,maybe that's because the rear end is now higher and stiffer.
You certainly know your stuff!! So to just change the fork oil then seems relatively easy,open the fork tops,pour them out,and refill with the correct amount of oil as per the Haynes manual.
Since fitting the new shock the front end definitely feels dodgy,maybe that's because the rear end is now higher and stiffer.
Just a note. While you can empty and refill with oil you will not get all the crud out unless a complete tear down is done. A lot of crud hides in the inner workings and draining alone will not get rid of it.
I feel that it should be a complete job once in a while at least if not always. YOMV
I feel that it should be a complete job once in a while at least if not always. YOMV
ST1100Y
Site Supporter
Not essentially coming only from the head bearings (in fact would this indicate them being in really bad condition...), it could also sum up due worn fork bushings and, in worst case, worn/oval fork bottoms causing additional clearance in the front wheel guidance... which will cause skittish feedback while cornering.
Try the following, while having the front jacked up: kneel down in front of bike, turn steering till the triple clamp rests on the steering limiter, then grab the front wheel with both hands at the 0900 and 1500hrs position any try to push/pull/wiggle the assy against the steering limiter while keeping a visual on the alignment of fork tube and fork bottom, then try the same to the other side/steering limiter; this might give a clue if the clearance noticed really origins from the head bearings alone, or if other issues within the fork assembly (or shot wheel bearings) are adding.
Thanks again Martin, I tried that and as I am no mechanic I can't be sure where the movement is coming from,but it feels like as if its coming from the head bearings,if the bottom bearing was worn away wouldn't that explain it? anyway I will need to get someone to investigate it for me.
Hi Martin, do you use saito fork seals yourself? I see they also do tapered head bearings, I think saito are Japanese?
Are you still using the oem fork springs yourself Brant? I have all the parts ready to order now except for fork springs,not sure if I'll bother getting them yet.The dampening orfices get enlarge over years of oil forced thru the small openings caused from friction. Go to a 10w or 15w fork oil after totally clean internally. No actual NEED for fancy progressive springs, unless they are badly sagged, which is very doubtful. OEM fork seals IS your best option for durability, even tho many use aftermarket fork seals. I found this out many a decades ago on moto-x bikes, and street bike are no different. Quality rules in this case, and worth the slight added expense. The anti-dive valves seem to be often neglected, for whatever reasonI haven't a clue, but alot of times cause poor load dampening because they are all gunked up........just advice from experience.Just suggesting to save ya' some bucks that could be better used for riding fuel.
JZH
International Bodger
Excellent description. I would just note that, with cartridge forks, compressing them (by putting the springs back in and tightening the fork cap, or by otherwise compressing them using straps, etc.) will not help you remove the bottom bolt if it is "spinning". In any case, the bolt is not actually spinning--it is remaining static within the compression valve body, which is spinning within the cartridge.
Compressing the fork drives the cartridge into the fork bottom, but since the the bottom bolt is not attached to the cartridge, this has no effect on the bolt. Even with the cartridge stuck fast to the bottom of the fork, the compression valve body is free to spin within it. Accordingly, the only way to stop the compression valve body from spinning is to extend the fork, which compresses the top-out spring (if present), exerts upward pressure on the cartridge, which exerts pressure on the internal circlip, which (finally) exerts pressure on the compression valve body, thus stopping it from spinning when torque is applied to the bottom bolt.
But the easiest and most reliable way to remove the bolt is, as dwalby said, to use an air ratchet!
Other notes: Fork springs are generally not wear items, so unless they are so old as to be out of spec (which on a well-used ST1100, is possible), they are only replaced when they are inappropriate for the weight of the bike and rider, as evidenced by the impossibility of achieving the correct sag using the pre-load adjustment and spacers.
If you're going to be replacing fork bushings, you may as well replace the oil seals, since it is much easier to do everything at the same time, compared with pulling the forks later just to do the seals...
Also, Honda does not make oil seals. Honda buys the seals from specialty manufacturers, such as NOK, so if OEM-quality seals are available in the aftermarket (which is not always the case), there is no reason why buying them from Honda would be any different--apart from price.
Finally, I've had good experiences with Wemoto. Most recently, I purchased some NC30 parts from them, but because these parts were "discontinued" by Honda, they were not available at all from David Silver Spares, Bike-Parts.fr, ZSF or CMS. As a result, I was skeptical that the Wemoto parts were genuine. However, two days later (fast shipping is standard in the UK...) I had those parts in my hand, brand new in their OEM Honda packaging.
Ciao,