Clutch master cylinder build - do I need to remove the clutch hose?

[IndyRob]

This week my clutch started to not disengage when I pulled the lever in all the way. I checked the fluid level and it was fine, but quite dirty. I admit I have not regularly changed it as I should.... so I purchased a master cylinder rebuild kit online. My question to the group is; is it necessary to remove the hose from the clutch master cylinder on the handlebar to do the rebuild? The reason I ask is I do not think the kit that I purchased online comes with the 2 brass "crush washers" that the output hose uses, and I failed to buy these in addition to the main kit.

Can I get the springs out without removing the output hose? Or should I try to get the 2 brass washers ASAP?

Thanks!

 

[Uncle Phil]

No - no need AFAIK and I have never removed it.
Obviously you will need to remove the slave cylinder end.
Also, you do not have to remove the right exhaust header to get that last slave cylinder bolt out.
A little gentle 'persuasion' on the header will give you just enough space to wiggle the bolt out.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

This week my clutch started to not disengage when I pulled the lever in all the way. I checked the fluid level and it was fine, but quite dirty. I admit I have not regularly changed it as I should.... so I purchased a master cylinder rebuild kit online. My question to the group is; is it necessary to remove the hose from the clutch master cylinder on the handlebar to do the rebuild? The reason I ask is I do not think the kit that I purchased online comes with the 2 brass "crush washers" that the output hose uses, and I failed to buy these in addition to the main kit.

Can I get the springs out without removing the output hose? Or should I try to get the 2 brass washers ASAP?

Thanks!

The hose on my 1991 is original, still pliable with no evidence of cracking or corrosion on the fittings. Flushing the system will likely clean out anything out of the hose itself. I only removed the upper end of mine to allow me to work on the master cylinder on my workbench.
'quite dirty' indicates you need to flush the whole system very thoroughly. Much more 'stuff' will be lodged in the slave cylinder on front of the engine. If it hasn't been been cleaned, you should consider rebuilding it.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Sorry - I misunderstood your question - you are rebuilding the master cylinder not the slave cylinder.
Usually if there is a problem it is the slave not the master that causes it - hence my comments.

 

[Igofar]

We have a winner…
Listen to Uncle Phil, it’s almost never the handlebar master cylinder that needs to be serviced or replaced, but rather the clutch slave cylinder.

 

[SMSW]

Or should I try to get the 2 brass washers ASAP?

FYI, crush washers come in various flavors - copper, brass, aluminum, with the first and last being very common. You can get a kit of more than a hundred in assorted sizes from Amazon for a few bucks, and in your lifetime you will use maybe one or two sizes. Or you can go to McMaster-Carr - a ginormous industrial hardware emporium and pay their high prices for high quality merchandise, fantastic customer service, and yes, you will probably pay shipping too. McMaster has a warehouse about 30 min from my home, I call to place an order, and it's usually ready for pickup in about an hour or two. It helps to open a cash account - call it Rob's Plumbing or whatever you wish and pay with your credit card.

 

[jfheath]

No you don't have to remove the banjo bolt and hose, but it makes it easier to work with on your bench if you do. Whatever, you do need circlip pliers.

My very first 1100 had 29000 on the clock and was 4 years old when I bought it. I replaced both master and slave cylinders with new, took them off and cleaned off the thick black paste that was on both pistons.

It was odd. I'd never come across that before. But then this was my first ever rebuild. What did I know. I looked at the service kit and noted the new seals. Where were they in the parts that I had removed ? There weren't any seals.

The thick black paste ? I couldn't find anywhere that said I had to apply any paste. And then it gradually dawned on me. Yes. That paste had been the seals at one time. It had the consistency of butter straight out of the fridge. Goodness knows what the previous owner had used instead of brake fluid. I've never seen that since.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

No you don't have to remove the banjo bolt and hose, but it makes it easier to work with on your bench if you do. Whatever, you do need circlip pliers.

My very first 1100 had 29000 on the clock and was 4 years old when I bought it. I replaced both master and slave cylinders with new, took them off and cleaned off the thick black paste that was on both pistons.

It was odd. I'd never come across that before. But then this was my first ever rebuild. What did I know. I looked at the service kit and noted the new seals. Where were they in the parts that I had removed ? There weren't any seals.

The thick black paste ? I couldn't find anywhere that said I had to apply any paste. And then it gradually dawned on me. Yes. That paste had been the seals at one time. It had the consistency of butter straight out of the fridge. Goodness knows what the previous owner had used instead of brake fluid. I've never seen that since.

Got our 1991 nine years ago this coming August....a retirement present for myself (along with some other stuff!). I rebuilt both clutch cylinders, and the usual maintenance/repair of things, 'cause the bike had been sitting for an extended time. Neither clutch cylinder was leaking. Fluid in the master cylinder looked fresh, dealer said he had changed all the fluids which appeared to be fact. The slave on the front of the engine also contained fresh fluid but, the cavity was filled with what appeared to be green coarse salt crystals which I have never seen over dozens of rebuilds. I replaced both cylinders and rebuilt the originals for future use.
I have seen all manner of PO induced issues on the bikes I have rebuilt. Each had something I had never seen before...along with the usual.

 

[rwthomas1]

Assuming the crush washers are not mashed flat by some gorilla with a wrench they can be reused. Inspect closely, if they are copper they can be annealed to make them soft again. New is preferable, but in a pinch you do what you have to.

 

[IndyRob]

My "crush washers" were silver so I assume probably aluminum. (?) Just finished the rebuild of the master cylinder; reused them and no leaks.

Very easy if you have the right tools (aka a snap ring pliers, right sized wrenches etc). With the wife's help squeezing the clutch I got the system bled of air, I think. Took a while, and I admit (badly) that this was my FIRST time bleeding the clutch fluid in 60K miles and 30 years of riding. The old fluid was golden while the new is clear. Really just never thought about it... unlike brakes where I typically bleed them every 3 years. OK, with 60K miles in 30 years I do not ride nearly as much as I like; usually do 2-3 long rides in the summer and other than that I'm putting around Indy to the store etc. :-( Always garaged so I guess that makes you feel immune to aging.

Getting ready to do another 2K miles down around Robbinsville and Cherehola Skyway next month. Now that I'm finally retired I'm hoping to get much more mileage on her, but it's getting harder to find parts for a 30 year old bike. Maybe the new Wing is in my future?? Anyone else taken that plunge that wants to weigh in???

 

[Ron]

Good Job!!

Getting ready to do another 2K miles down around Robbinsville and Cherehola Skyway next month. Now that I'm finally retired I'm hoping to get much more mileage on her, but it's getting harder to find parts for a 30 year old bike. ...

Maybe start with OH-STOC at Lake hope State Park

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/oh-stoc-2023-jun-8-10-2023-mcarthur-oh.181611/

 

[IndyRob]

Yes I was just over at Hocking Hills SP last week…. wonderful park and nice roads in that area!

 

[rwthomas1]

, but it's getting harder to find parts for a 30 year old bike.

Congrats on the repair going smoothly. I have to ask though, what parts were difficult to come by? I keep hearing this but I haven't experienced it.

 

[IndyRob]

One example is the voltage regulator that died on me last fall. Many places showed they had them in stock, but all of them wound up not having them and several told me they were no longer manufacture by/for Honda.

 

[rwthomas1]

One example is the voltage regulator that died on me last fall. Many places showed they had them in stock, but all of them wound up not having them and several told me they were no longer manufacture by/for Honda.

I can see where someone who is not a DIY would freak out a bit over that. But I'd just get a universal regulator or pirate one from another bike.....