Considering options... severe oil leak

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Mods, apologies, I wasn't sure where to put this. Feel free to move as you see fit of course. For everyone else, I've not been here much - howdy, hope you're all well (and in a much better mood than me). It's not that I don't like you lot - just life keeping me busy.

Last December, I put the bike through an MOT and that ended up costing me 2K GBP (new SMC, forks plus a load of other bits & pieces due to age and the fact that the bike lives outside in Wales, etc). While I was there, I spotted a used Triumph Trophy and very nearly part exchanged the ST. The only real reason I didn't, was that the numbers didn't quite work out for me.

Since then, I've been off globe trotting for work, and the bike has had maybe 800miles put on it because I've just not had the time or reason to get it out. Yesterday, I knew that the bike had sat still and that the clutch needed a flush/bleed, so being my first day back from overseas, I figured I'd take it to the garage I use. I did the usual POWER checks because it's not a daily ride anymore, hit the starter (was slightly amazed that it fired right up, I was expecting a dead battery because of our recent cold spell and it sitting still for weeks)... and I walked away to let it warm up while I geared up.

Luckily, I decided to be kind to the locals, ST's are quiet bikes, but reverberating around brick structures in close proximity makes things louder. So I decided to shut it down, it can warm up between my house and the public roads while rolling just as easily.

Why is that lucky, you say? Well... for anyone that has pulled a sump plug out and seen the flow rate of oil coming from an engine... that was happening... only the engine was running at the time (not recommended, please don't try that at home!) Luckily I hit the kill switch before the engine stopped magically by itself. Having looked briefly at the bike (I've not bothered removing tupperware), the sump plug is still intact, and the oil appears to have been coming from the rear of the engine, quite high up (but can't see the source if you take the seats off).

I figured I'd post here, because having searched (and even looked on Google)... this appears to be an extremely rare event on an incredibly reliable engine, so the technical folks might like to speculate, and I'm going to find out regardless. As a little spoiler alert... it might be similar to something that Bob has seen before... I don't know yet.

The options I'm considering:
  • I have a magic number in my head, no, it's not a guessing game.... if the repairs cost less than X, the garage will be repairing it and I'll continue riding it like I stole it... until either the next expensive problem or it spits oil onto the rear contact patch in an NSL.
  • If the repairs cost more than my magic number: I'm done. It's going to a scrap yard (though, at that point, if a UK member with a van or a trailer would like to call dibs on it... you're welcome to it for free, gratis, no strings attached - other than maybe if the garage want to charge a storage fee until you can collect it from North Wales).
I've already spec'd a brand new BMW RT1250 SE with extra bells and whistles, and booked a test ride for next weekend. I'll be looking at other manufacturers for recent touring bikes (not necessarily brand new bikes, but recent, so things like the Triumph Trophy).

So if anyone wants to speculate about what happened to make it vomit all over the floor, or recommend bikes that I might want to look at, feel free. If you'd like to call dibs on the bike please do so in this thread - first come first serve, and if we get to that point, we can arrange details privately. Brand new anti-dive with under 800 miles, 2nd hand forks that the garage said were in "perfect" condition, helibars riser on it, down pipes were replaced a year ago for delkavic's (but the rest of the exhaust is stock)... I can get pictures for the interested party. Lots of signs of age due to being kept outside most of it's life.
 
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Obo

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Really sorry to hear about your woes but very please you caught it before going for a rip on the roads!

Here's hoping the fix is minor.

That being said if you've really got your eyes on a newer, different bike, then I say go for it. You can still hang out here for coffee and the like!! We don't care about the bike.
 
OP
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Quite possibly a winner, Mike, though I'm not going to bother myself with fixing it myself. The garage are already scheduled to call me back. That's probably the better way to do it anyway, just in case something inside the motor suffered due to lack of oil.

I've just been out to look, and laid down next to the rear tyre looking through the gaps of the tupperware... the oil filter still has wet oil on it, but only on he bottom half of it. It's not loose (by hand). I'm not sure how the oil filter would have made the bike urinate like a horse, but the garage can tell me that.

Obo, you're sort of right, I've had my eyes open for a while, and an ex-member here has somewhat turned my eye towards the RT1250's. I'm not in a rush though... but if it's a choice between not having a bike or buying something new... my credit card will be saving my sanity.
 
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Gerhard

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When taking off the oil filter you have to make sure that the gasket comes off with the filter and didn’t stick to the block then you have two gaskets when spinning on the new filter, a recipe for a leak.
 

Mr.E

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Might pay to just remove the lower black plastic fairing trim for a closer look, the filter screws directly onto the oil cooler unit so there may be something there that's causing the leak - hope it's not too serious.

What ever you do DO NOT BUY a Trophy SE (if that's the model you mention) I bought brand new in 2014 and it was the worst bike I've EVER owned, virtually every owner has drop them and they cost a fortune to maintain, Triumph Ltd disowned & dumped the model very quickly due to their terrible design flaws and left many owners with a crap bike no-one wanted - beware!
 
OP
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For those speculating - I know my a**e from my elbow... it's just that having already thrown more money at the bike than the bike itself is worth, then riding for 800 miles, a major issue happened. So I think I might be done with the ST. This isn't the ST's fault, it's the fact it's almost 21 years old, and as we all know, parts are getting tricky to source.

Let me add some history....

Probably 2 years ago the oil was changed (at the same garage that will be calling me to arrange collection tomorrow). Standard filter, they did the work, not me. I can and have done oil & filter swaps on the ST... but time is money and because they give me a free loaner bike (anything I want that's in the shop at the time)... the cost/benefit in my head means that they can throw spanners at the bike rather than me getting dirty. Some will scoff at that, but hey ho.

So, 2 years ago, the oil & filter was changed, minimal mileage thanks to lockdowns causing me to work from home 100%. It's probably only just about due... if at all.

2-3 months ago, MOT, the same garage had the bike for 10 days at the cost of about two arms & three legs, just to give me the legal paperwork that lets me keep it on the road. They didn't do an oil change during that time.

Since the MOT, I've ridden about 800 miles, absolutely no issue at all.

Yesterday, I checked the bike over, all good. I hit the starter, she urinates oil immediately. A week before this, my car was so cold that I had to de-ice the doors to open it on my way to the airport.

So, my theory is (having now looked at the oil filter, thanks Mike): due to cold weather, the gasket on the oil filter cracked... probably somewhere halfway "up" on one or both sides. As pressure built with the engine running, oil probably seeped out, then started to gush - along the outside of the filter and then down to the ground.

This is why I'm not touching it myself - the garage (a dealership, with dealership prices) were the ones last in that area of the bike. I have a great relationship with them - so much so, that my bike continues to go to them for things I could do, and doesn't go to the Honda shop. I already know it'll be the Service Manager himself that comes to pick it up, and I've not asked for him over one of his drivers. When he comes out, the conversation will probably be "Hey, Will... this is what I think happened, but have your tech look it over for me. If someone in the shop screwed up and it has 2 gaskets on it... cool, give them a slap. Just tell me honestly and put the problem right at your own cost and we're all good. If by some freak of engineering, after sitting still with no problems for 3 weeks, an oil filter can develop a hole in it... give me the filter to prove it and I'll pay for whatever work your guys do."

As Obo sort of eluded to, I have a test ride booked - if I fall in love with another bike that comes with a warranty... well... the grass might be greener (and yes, I know that's because they use BS for fertilizer over there).

EDIT: PS. Thanks guys, duly noted, the Triumph Trophy is duly ruled out of the running.
 

Nashcat

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Since the oil filter is about the only place the oil can gush out, at the rear of the engine, I’d pull the lower fairing and snatch the filter out. For a little money and not much effort, you might save a tow bill and the cost of the mechanic. Then, have a cold beverage of choice, knowing you probably saved enough for a set of tyres.

Just make sure the new gasket is clean.

5ABCECD1-D0C7-47F3-8B4D-C41BE5F41B73.jpeg
 
OP
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Nashcat, did you take that pic just for this thread, you utter, utter *******?

RT in the background as well... :rofl1:
 

Igofar

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Take a peek at the rear crankcase cover....
Your slave cylinder weep hole my be puking oil out if the inner oil seal gave up the ghost.
It should be easy to see, just look at the bottom of the clutch slave cylinder cover weep hole.
 
OP
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Now then, @Mellow actual question - that looks like the 29L top box you have, right? Can you fit a helmet in it?

Asking for a frien...no, me. It's a question I'm going to ask the BMW sales rep next week, too.

@Igofar - I love you, that's what I was hinting at with the problem that I think (based on my search) Bob saw many moons ago. Again though, I'm going to leave it to the garage to tell me what went wrong with it (and prove it). They have been the only ones in the last 2 years+ to work on the bike... if they screwed up, they can put it right. If it's simply age related, it's probably time for me to ride another horse.
 

Mellow

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Now then, @Mellow actual question - that looks like the 29L top box you have, right? Can you fit a helmet in it?

Asking for a frien...no, me. It's a question I'm going to ask the BMW sales rep next week, too.

@Igofar - I love you, that's what I was hinting at with the problem that I think (based on my search) Bob saw many moons ago. Again though, I'm going to leave it to the garage to tell me what went wrong with it (and prove it). They have been the only ones in the last 2 years+ to work on the bike... if they screwed up, they can put it right. If it's simply age related, it's probably time for me to ride another horse.
That's a v46 but I have a v56 I may put on.
 

Obo

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For those speculating A week before this, my car was so cold that I had to de-ice the doors to open it on my way to the airport.
...

So, my theory is (having now looked at the oil filter, thanks Mike): due to cold weather, the gasket on the oil filter cracked... probably somewhere halfway "up" on one or both sides. As pressure built with the engine running, oil probably seeped out, then started to gush - along the outside of the filter and then down to the ground.
Other random though. If it was "that cold" perhaps the antifreeze wasn't up to snuff and something actually cracked around a water jacket. It's just a guess as I don't know where the waterjacket runs around the rear of the engine where the oil leak seems to be at.
 
OP
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Update for the interested parties.

I borrowed a R1250 RT LE. I didn't like it. Why? Mostly the laws of physics. The 1250 boxer engine will always have vibration in places I don't like, and the wind protection on the '21 model doesn't match the extended screen I have on the 13 (this isn't a fault of BMW, I just don't like it - I even said to the dealer that an extended screen and lower seat might fix my problem).

That leaves me in the EXTREMELY fortunate position of considering the 2023 K1600 GTL LE, vs the 2023 Goldwing Tour DCT... both of which are financially viable without a HP/PCP agreement. Growing up below the poverty belt, that sentence felt strange to write.

Meanwhile, the service manager at the garage never called me back about the 13. So, knowing my A from my E, I have:
  • pulled the oil filter, she still leaked oil, so wasn't completely dry when she shutdown.
  • given the motor an internal oil bath (deliberately filled to the brim with oil, and left over night, to see if oil would seep into places oil shouldn't go, without any pressure).
  • post oil-bath, complete oil & filter change, per mother Honda's guidance on the topic.
  • post correct oil level, pulled the plugs out, and ran the starter motor until the battery went flat (no bad noises is a good sign)
  • allowed the fuel to evaporate from running the starter without plugs, put the plugs back in, checked everything over, hooked up a battery booster, and fired the engine. I've only run the motor for 1-2mins, but she still doesn't sound like a bag of spanners falling down a staircase. So far, no blue smoke either.
So tomorrow, another oil change for safety (to remove any metal fragments), then I'll warm her up normally and see how things are. If I'm happy at that point, I'll bounce her off the rev limiter and see what falls out. If I'm still happy, I'll ride it like I stole it (at least as far as the fuel station... it's on 2 bars now!).

If everything goes well, I still have the old oil filter, and I'll clean it up and look for why the hell it decided to quit it's day job. Maybe it's a "Gen Z" oil filter and just doesn't like work, I don't know. But I do know it has a single gasket on it...
 
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