Considering options... severe oil leak

bdalameda

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There were some bad oil filters out there that caused some major issues a couple of years ago. The design of the filter was changed and the base of the filter was made in such a way that the base would bottom out before the oil filter seal was fully compressed. The base with the threaded hole was more convex vs concave and on some bikes the threaded base would contact the mount before the gasket was fully compressed. Sometimes the leaks did not start right away but eventually the seal would fail and a major oil leak would result.

I don't remember the brand of filter but I do know that these defective filters were sold under different brand names but they all came out of the same factory. Perhaps you got one of these bad filters and when the temperature got cold the seal could no longer hold. I would compare the filter you took off with a new filter and see if these is a difference in the filter base design.
 
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Andrew Shadow

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I don't remember the brand of filter ......
As I recall it, Bosch issued a recall for oil filters that had base plates that were made convex instead of concave. This was a defect, an error in manufacturing.
One, or some, of the Purolator automotive filters that also fit the ST1300 had a design change that resulted in the same poor fitting base and resulted in oil leaks. It was not a defect from what I recall. It was an intentional design change that still met the requirements of the vehicles that these filters are intended for, which does not include the ST1100/1300 even though many people use them in that application.
 
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diferg

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I agree with your plan of action, "Ride It Like You Stole It"! Best wishes for Success.
 
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Update for the interested parties.

I borrowed a R1250 RT LE. I didn't like it. Why? Mostly the laws of physics. The 1250 boxer engine will always have vibration in places I don't like, and the wind protection on the '21 model doesn't match the extended screen I have on the 13 (this isn't a fault of BMW, I just don't like it - I even said to the dealer that an extended screen and lower seat might fix my problem).

That leaves me in the EXTREMELY fortunate position of considering the 2023 K1600 GTL LE, vs the 2023 Goldwing Tour DCT... both of which are financially viable without a HP/PCP agreement. Growing up below the poverty belt, that sentence felt strange to write.

Meanwhile, the service manager at the garage never called me back about the 13. So, knowing my A from my E, I have:
  • pulled the oil filter, she still leaked oil, so wasn't completely dry when she shutdown.
  • given the motor an internal oil bath (deliberately filled to the brim with oil, and left over night, to see if oil would seep into places oil shouldn't go, without any pressure).
  • post oil-bath, complete oil & filter change, per mother Honda's guidance on the topic.
  • post correct oil level, pulled the plugs out, and ran the starter motor until the battery went flat (no bad noises is a good sign)
  • allowed the fuel to evaporate from running the starter without plugs, put the plugs back in, checked everything over, hooked up a battery booster, and fired the engine. I've only run the motor for 1-2mins, but she still doesn't sound like a bag of spanners falling down a staircase. So far, no blue smoke either.
So tomorrow, another oil change for safety (to remove any metal fragments), then I'll warm her up normally and see how things are. If I'm happy at that point, I'll bounce her off the rev limiter and see what falls out. If I'm still happy, I'll ride it like I stole it (at least as far as the fuel station... it's on 2 bars now!).

If everything goes well, I still have the old oil filter, and I'll clean it up and look for why the hell it decided to quit it's day job. Maybe it's a "Gen Z" oil filter and just doesn't like work, I don't know. But I do know it has a single gasket on it...
Good luck and keep us updated.
 

mjc506

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Just because I can't believe no-one's said it yet...

Dibs!

My first instinct would have been a split or rusted-through oil filter, but agree that an oil filter gasket or base issue may be more likely. Hopefully what the garage has done has 'sorted' it :)
 

Gerhard

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My first instinct would have been a split or rusted-through oil filter, but agree that an oil filter gasket or base issue may be more likely.
A perfect case where the KISS principle should be applied, it is usually something simple.
 

Igofar

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How about checking something so simple that you will slap your head?
I had a customer get his bike back from a local Honda shop, and only made it a few blocks down the road before his oil light came on, and oil was all over the top and back side of the engine.
I followed him back to the shop, and THEY inspected it and said his head was blown and all kinds of BS.
After they said they inspected it, I pointed out the guys oil fill cap (with missing o-ring) sitting on this mechanics bench.
Check to see if your cap is still in place, and if it still has the o-ring on it.
It blows oil back along the side and all over the back of the engine.
 
OP
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Well, now that I have some members here on tenterhooks... yes, Matt, I mean you :D

Hopefully what the garage has done has 'sorted' it :)
They have done diddly squat. Not even returned my phone call. To be honest, I'm not all that bothered, I found the time to poke it in situ.

How about checking something so simple that you will slap your head?
I have to admit, I'm getting old. It took me 20mins and watching a YouTube video to remember how to take the tupperware off that covers the spark plugs. I'm pleased to say that the filler cap was ridiculously tight, and the o-ring is intact. I'm also pleased to say that the oil only ever made it as high up on the outside of the motor, as half way up the oil filter.

So, drum roll please...

Yesterday I did an oil change and ran the motor for a few minutes. Today, I did another oil change (why not, the dino's are already dead, I doubt they care!). Made sure the oil level was good, and everything screwed in was screwed in at least as tight as it should be... then I hit the starter and laid under the bike to see if I was giving myself an oil bath.

Thankfully not. So on to the next test, let it warm up and then bounce it off the rev limiter until I'm bored or she's dead....

Well... I got bored before the motor died, and it's on two bars of fuel - I don't like running it much lower than that. She sounds absolutely no different to before.

I'm not counting my chickens just yet... but I think in this case there is no free motorcycle for you my friend. :p The caveat, I'm on a RoSPA check ride this Saturday... if she spits oil and I'm in your neck of the woods, I believe you're on the RAN list, you can collect it from it's final resting place. I'm not much of a betting man, but at this point, my money is on me not calling you on Saturday :nanner1: (watch karma bite me just for that emoji!)
 

Igofar

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Did someone fill the oil while it was on the side stand? Is there oil inside the air box?
 
OP
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Did someone fill the oil while it was on the side stand? Is there oil inside the air box?
Not I, and no. Also, the farm cats have been busy, there's no sign of mice in there either.

Literally looks like the oil filter decided to take an early retirement so far. After the weekend's ride, I'll clean up the filter and post images here.
 

Igofar

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So far it’s been the Bosch 3300 filters that had the major recalls a few years ago, then several K&N recalls.
K&N does not make the filters, hiflowfiltro allow K&N to put their name on their filters.
Be interested to see who’s filter it was and what happened.
 

diferg

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At least he wiped it with a dirty cloth....
Good Video, didn't realize they were made with such a precision assembly line! I once had a 1948 International step van and the oil filter housing stuffed with sanitary napkins! might be better than modern filters! :rofl1:
 
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Mods, apologies, I wasn't sure where to put this. Feel free to move as you see fit of course. For everyone else, I've not been here much - howdy, hope you're all well (and in a much better mood than me). It's not that I don't like you lot - just life keeping me busy.

Last December, I put the bike through an MOT and that ended up costing me 2K GBP (new SMC, forks plus a load of other bits & pieces due to age and the fact that the bike lives outside in Wales, etc). While I was there, I spotted a used Triumph Trophy and very nearly part exchanged the ST. The only real reason I didn't, was that the numbers didn't quite work out for me.

Since then, I've been off globe trotting for work, and the bike has had maybe 800miles put on it because I've just not had the time or reason to get it out. Yesterday, I knew that the bike had sat still and that the clutch needed a flush/bleed, so being my first day back from overseas, I figured I'd take it to the garage I use. I did the usual POWER checks because it's not a daily ride anymore, hit the starter (was slightly amazed that it fired right up, I was expecting a dead battery because of our recent cold spell and it sitting still for weeks)... and I walked away to let it warm up while I geared up.

Luckily, I decided to be kind to the locals, ST's are quiet bikes, but reverberating around brick structures in close proximity makes things louder. So I decided to shut it down, it can warm up between my house and the public roads while rolling just as easily.

Why is that lucky, you say? Well... for anyone that has pulled a sump plug out and seen the flow rate of oil coming from an engine... that was happening... only the engine was running at the time (not recommended, please don't try that at home!) Luckily I hit the kill switch before the engine stopped magically by itself. Having looked briefly at the bike (I've not bothered removing tupperware), the sump plug is still intact, and the oil appears to have been coming from the rear of the engine, quite high up (but can't see the source if you take the seats off).

I figured I'd post here, because having searched (and even looked on Google)... this appears to be an extremely rare event on an incredibly reliable engine, so the technical folks might like to speculate, and I'm going to find out regardless. As a little spoiler alert... it might be similar to something that Bob has seen before... I don't know yet.

The options I'm considering:
  • I have a magic number in my head, no, it's not a guessing game.... if the repairs cost less than X, the garage will be repairing it and I'll continue riding it like I stole it... until either the next expensive problem or it spits oil onto the rear contact patch in an NSL.
  • If the repairs cost more than my magic number: I'm done. It's going to a scrap yard (though, at that point, if a UK member with a van or a trailer would like to call dibs on it... you're welcome to it for free, gratis, no strings attached - other than maybe if the garage want to charge a storage fee until you can collect it from North Wales).
I've already spec'd a brand new BMW RT1250 SE with extra bells and whistles, and booked a test ride for next weekend. I'll be looking at other manufacturers for recent touring bikes (not necessarily brand new bikes, but recent, so things like the Triumph Trophy).

So if anyone wants to speculate about what happened to make it vomit all over the floor, or recommend bikes that I might want to look at, feel free. If you'd like to call dibs on the bike please do so in this thread - first come first serve, and if we get to that point, we can arrange details privately. Brand new anti-dive with under 800 miles, 2nd hand forks that the garage said were in "perfect" condition, helibars riser on it, down pipes were replaced a year ago for delkavic's (but the rest of the exhaust is stock)... I can get pictures for the interested party. Lots of signs of age due to being kept outside most of it's life.
Had my 1100 DUMP most of the oil while being ridden, and could not see where it was leaking, turned out to be a blocked crankcase vent tube which pressurised the crankcase and popped the rocker cover gasket right hand side. Turns out was my mistake after replacing the carbs, and pinched it then....easy fix, but very inconvenient at 80km from home.
 
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