Coolant Hoses - question about parts list and elbows

[STV4Pair]

I'm doing the full replacement of coolant & radiator hoses, along with carb boots on both my 1998 and 2002 ST1100's.

Thanks to the numerous threads on this topic, the very knowledgeable and kind members here who have posted pics, tips/tricks and step-by-step instructions, and the Honda service manual I've got one of them torn down and ordered two sets of parts yesterday. I'm doing one bike at a time so at least I have one to still ride!

My parts list is in the pic below.

What I did have trouble pinpointing though in the various threads is specificity about the "elbows". In all the threads, no one seemed to list or show the exact elbows and/or part numbers for them although there are strong recommendations to change those out as well.

Can someone smarter than me provide exact pics and part numbers for these elbows? Are you referring to T-fittings, etc that are part of the air system & venting from the Carbs? Mine seem to be ok on the one bike I've torn down. If there are additional parts I should get, I want to get these added to my order so I'm not adding extra days to my project and as memory fade occurs I forget how to put everything back together.

Thanks!

 

[ST1100Y]

2 pcs P/N 19523-MT-3000, joint water
2 pcs P/N 91331-PC9-003, O-ring 21.2X2.4(ARAI)
(both items fit all years)

Also mind loc 13, TUBE, 5.3x380
this is the "small bypass" and tends to harden & crack, thus leak after some years.
Any braided fuel line with ID 5mm will fit nicely.

a fiche to look at:
http://www.bike-parts-honda.com/pieces-honda-detail-3791-13MAJX41-ST1100AY-2000-E__1900-PAN+EUROPEAN+ST+1100+ABS.html

 

[STV4Pair]

This is very helpful - but to clarify, PN 19523-MT3-3000 are the metal parts in the pics below? It makes sense now. As you can see, I've had some seepage.

 

[Slasher]

yes, those are the elbows. I did the same thing you are doing when I first got my 98 ST1100 and changed all hoses and o rings. I however did NOT change the elbows. I think they changed how they made the elbows in the later years because mine were fine and the price total at the bottom of my order was already higher than I wanted it to be so I threw caution to the wind and kept the originals. I did change the o rings out that seal the elbows however. When you pull them out they will appear to be a gasket because they will be so flat but they started out life as an o ring. So, if budget isn't a concern, go ahead and get some elbows but, if they look good and don't seem to be leaking... change out their o rings and throw them back in! (From the pics it looks like just your clamps are leaking on the elbows, not the elbows themselves, i used the same constant tension clamps on mine that everybody uses on the ST1300's to keep that from happening)

 

[STV4Pair]

yes, those are the elbows. I did the same thing you are doing when I first got my 98 ST1100 and changed all hoses and o rings. I however did NOT change the elbows. I think they changed how they made the elbows in the later years because mine were fine and the price total at the bottom of my order was already higher than I wanted it to be so I threw caution to the wind and kept the originals. I did change the o rings out that seal the elbows however. When you pull them out they will appear to be a gasket because they will be so flat but they started out life as an o ring. So, if budget isn't a concern, go ahead and get some elbows but, if they look good and don't seem to be leaking... change out their o rings and throw them back in! (From the pics it looks like just your clamps are leaking on the elbows, not the elbows themselves, i used the same constant tension clamps on mine that everybody uses on the ST1300's to keep that from happening)

Yes - after looking at this a little more, I'm leaning toward cleaning them up and not replacing them if they're intact. According to the link ST1100Y gave, they're about $45 each. The bike I have torn down (2002) isn't experiencing any leakage (despite the seepage I can now see with the stuff exposed) but I'm glad I'm doing the replacement. My 1998 definitely needs it because I smell coolant every time I ride it and I've had the telltale puddle the last couple winters. I just happened to do the 2002 first. If it turns out the '98 needs them when I get it torn apart I'll obviously order what I need.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

they're about $45 each.

Service Honda wants less than $9 for the elbow.

Edit: item 10 in the schematic here: http://www.st-riders.net/index.php?topic=3523

Note the note about adding the air suction valves' hose to your parts list. If you've not pulled the carbs before you may find this hose frozen/welded to its nipple on the front of the carb body. BTDT! Saves a LOT of frustration to just cut the damn thing off and install a new one. HTH

John
via iPhone 4S

 

[dwalby]

A year and a half ago I paid $8.14 each for the elbows. Didn't follow the link to understand where you got the $45 price from, but its not correct.

 

[Jim Van]

Replace the elbows. Mine looked OK , but when I re-installed them, they both cracked. Not worth the gamble IMHO not to replace them. But then, I am an admitted preventative maintenance Fanatic .... maybe I need to get into a 12-Step Program ??

BTW (#1) , Good idea that you are replacing the carb insulators, IMHO. Insures an airtight seal. The rubber gets stiff after all the years.

BTW (#2) , looks like it's too late for you, but I used 3/4 " silicone heater hose from the elbows to each head. Cheaper and better ( IMHO ) than the OEM hoses.

 

[DeanR]

the "small bypass" and tends to harden & crack

Since we're talking hoses, I can't remember where the upper end of this 'bypass hose/#13 bulk hose' connects. One end goes to the metal tube that the oil cooler hoses connect to.

I have a small leak somewhere that I can't find and that is the only connection I haven't checked for tightness, of all the hoses I replaced over a year ago. And yes, the elbows too.

 

[dwalby]

Since we're talking hoses, I can't remember where the upper end of this 'bypass hose/#13 bulk hose' connects. One end goes to the metal tube that the oil cooler hoses connect to.

IIRC on my '97 it attaches to the t-stat housing. I'd assume its the same with the earlier bikes with the extra hoses attached to the oil filter (which later years don't have), but I'm not sure.

 

[DeanR]

forgot to attach the fiche - hose #16

 

[STV4Pair]

A year and a half ago I paid $8.14 each for the elbows. Didn't follow the link to understand where you got the $45 price from, but its not correct.

You're right - I mistook the figure of 29.88 from the link ST1100Y as Great Britain Pound (GPB) and converted. Its not pounds its some other currency. Checked with my local dealer and the Joint, Water (elbow) is about $10 each. I'll be getting new ones....

My air suction hose at the front of the carb body came off no problem from the nipple. I'm pretty sure the carbs have been off before I got the bike.

Thanks for all the input! You guys are great.

You meet the nicest people on a Honda!!!

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

Dean, the bypass hose connects to the thermo housing and runs to the Water Pipe. It's the small hose on the right in this picture:
http://www.st-riders.net/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=40&pid=961#top_display_media

Sorry, I don't have a clear shot of the thermo housing connection.

John
via iPhone 4S

 

[Brant]

Replace the elbows. Mine looked OK , but when I re-installed them, they both cracked. Not worth the gamble IMHO not to replace them. But then, I am an admitted preventative maintenance Fanatic .... maybe I need to get into a 12-Step Program ??

BTW (#1) , Good idea that you are replacing the carb insulators, IMHO. Insures an airtight seal. The rubber gets stiff after all the years.

BTW (#2) , looks like it's too late for you, but I used 3/4 " silicone heater hose from the elbows to each head. Cheaper and better ( IMHO ) than the OEM hoses.

A huge +1 replacing those coolant elbows. Like Jim said, don't EVEN second guess them.
IMO, the fracturing across the top of those elbows is due to heating and cooling cycles over the years. With the bolted down sides of elbow being two different amounts of metal(short side, tall side), expansion/ cooling rates are different creating undue stress on elbow housing.
Same goes for head-to-carb boots, especially if you don't know bikes history, or they have not previously been replaced. An unknown vacuum leak in that area, leaning out an associated cyl. can be way more costly than the 40somthing bucks for four new boots.

 

[DeanR]

Dean, the bypass hose connects to the thermo housing and runs to the Water Pipe. It's the small hose on the right in this picture:

Yea, now I remember. Shoulda looked at your picture to begin with John. Really don't want to pull carbs just to check a connection.
I'm assuming if it were leaking there, the drip would be back at the sidestand like it would be with an elbow leak. This minor drip is up front.

STV4Pair, your bike is gonna like all the new bits. I thought mine did, but now I have a little mystery.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

Dean, if the connection at the Water Pipe leaks, the coolant will drip at the front left of the engine. Not an unknown failure. Can appear to possibly be a water pump bearing failure until the actual source is determined.

 

[ST1100Y]

I did the same thing you are doing when I first got my 98 ST1100 and changed all hoses and o rings. I however did NOT change the elbows.

Yeah, but you still should have replaced the O-rings sealing them onto the heads...
Heat, scale and crystals do wear them down pretty good over the years.
I had yet not a broken elbow, but I do replace them O-rings during "regular" 100Tkm maintenance... found some that had literally pulverized...

According to the link ST1100Y gave, they're about $45 each.

Don't get fooled by European prices... ever!
You guys pay a fraction of what they charge us over here... pretty annoying at the times, but can't change it...
The link was only for P/N reference...

IIRC on my '97 it attaches to the t-stat housing.

It still does, no design change there.
The "bypass" is essential to have a minimum circulation.

 

[STV4Pair]

Parts came in (2 bikes worth) so I left work early to get them. If it wasn't 35 degrees F and windy as heck today I'd start the replacement.....

Gotta get some 5mm ID fuel line to use for the small bypass hose coming off the water pipe - this is either item 13 or 16 depending on which fiche you're looking at.

Can't wait to get the first bike done and back together so I can do the second one.

 

[DeanR]

Parts came in (2 bikes worth)

Boy, that looks familiar. Have fun.

 

[dwalby]

Gotta get some 5mm ID fuel line to use for the small bypass hose coming off the water pipe - this is either item 13 or 16 depending on which fiche you're looking at.

I have extra left over from when I did mine with the Honda 5.5mm line, PM me and I'll mail a length to you for free. Not sure if that will fit in with your time schedule, but if it does, send me a PM.