Cornering or Turning (I searched no results!?)

[Netling]

Officially it’s called cornering, others call it “go into the turns” or “riding the turns” or “riding the curves” regardless I searched Darksiders and results, Zero... (putting all these terms in here for SEO and future generations can find this thread!)

Let’s discuss this with complete openness, as I’m new to darksiding and still wrapping my head around it but open to learn new things.

If you are a darksider, how well does it handle cornering?

Have any of you lost the rear, sliding out or in the auto world, oversteer? Was darkside to blame or over confidence in general?

I’m coming from Ducati and being on tracks, I’m a knee dragged. Now, I haven’t gotten my ST on the road yet, I don’t know what to expect. The thought of darksiding puts shivers down my spine than again, leaning into a corner at 80 mph does the same to others, whom am I to judge!

On the positive side, now living in Colorado, I can see a HUGE advantage of darksiding with snow on the road, something we can get in Colorado at any time, even July or August in the mountains. Being the tire is flat, the rear may fishtail but not leaning the bike toward a fall, just a FLAT fishtail!

As a darksider, what has your experience been in snow and ice, am I dreaming of these as advantage or is my mind thinking through this correctly?

Eagerly awaiting replies!

- Charlie

 

[Pete in PA]

My advice, learn like I did. Ride someones ST that is already darksided. It WILL amaze you.

 

[T_C]

Going dark, or double dark is not as hard as some might think, generally easier then most would believe.

The two differences will disapear to your mind after 5 minutes of riding.

1st: More push to initiate a turn.
2nd: Have to hold to keep it in a turn.

Otherwise, traction overall is improved.
On ice, well good luck!
On wet, no doubt the CT disperses water better.
On dry pavement, braking and launch capacity are considerably better.

Some folks think you will feel the edge on a square tire and the bike will tip on it, nope.

Lifespan: for me, front tire got 50k, rear tire, well 50k and still going on this particular one.

My bike feels just fine and will corner when I ask it to It does tend to want to run straight. If I hop on another ST13 it feels like it just wants to corner and you have to keep it straight. Can notice the difference.

But for the extra traction, extra load capacity and cost per mile I am staying double dark.

PS One forum member here has taken his bike to a track for a run to compare, he had no complaints.
PPS At a Civilian Police Motorcycle Training course half the bikes were DD. The instructors weren;'t sure it worked. On the second day of class one of the instructors just had to borrow a bike to try, they were impressed.

 

[SMSW]

Quick note on the guy who took his bike to the track to see what car tires did for him. He had his gf aboard, and was a self professed aggressive rider. I'm in the other camp, but if you are going to race a Ducati and drag your knees, please throw a pair of CT's on and let us know how your lap times compare to standard race tires. Who knows, you might win all the races and start something.

 

[Netling]

Quick note on the guy who took his bike to the track to see what car tires did for him. He had his gf aboard, and was a self professed aggressive rider. I'm in the other camp, but if you are going to race a Ducati and drag your knees, please throw a pair of CT's on and let us know how your lap times compare to standard race tires. Who knows, you might win all the races and start something.

If I showed up to the track with CT on it, they would wrap tires around me, set me on fire and sung Italian homage songs till I was crispy! All seriousness if I had an older, damaged knee dragger I would

My advice, learn like I did. Ride someones ST that is already darksided. It WILL amaze you.

anyone in Denver or surrounding area want to loan me their bike?

 

[Netling]

Going dark, or double dark is not as hard as some might think, generally easier then most would believe.

The two differences will disapear to your mind after 5 minutes of riding.

1st: More push to initiate a turn.
2nd: Have to hold to keep it in a turn.

Otherwise, traction overall is improved.
On ice, well good luck!
On wet, no doubt the CT disperses water better.
On dry pavement, braking and launch capacity are considerably better.

Some folks think you will feel the edge on a square tire and the bike will tip on it, nope.

Lifespan: for me, front tire got 50k, rear tire, well 50k and still going on this particular one.

My bike feels just fine and will corner when I ask it to It does tend to want to run straight. If I hop on another ST13 it feels like it just wants to corner and you have to keep it straight. Can notice the difference.

But for the extra traction, extra load capacity and cost per mile I am staying double dark.

PS One forum member here has taken his bike to a track for a run to compare, he had no complaints.
PPS At a Civilian Police Motorcycle Training course half the bikes were DD. The instructors weren;'t sure it worked. On the second day of class one of the instructors just had to borrow a bike to try, they were impressed.

Great insight and thanks for the info!

I can imagine that it’s like going into chicanes were you have to “be aggressive” to throw the bike from left/right/right/left, if you don’t hold and push hard, your not making it.

 

[ST Gui]

You'll find a lot of naysayer to darksiding here – most of whom I guess have never done it (I haven't) who are quick to post perceived evils. I have no intention of trying it as it's just more involved than I want to do but I do see the advantages.

There are a lot of riders here who walk the walk or ride the ride. spiderman302 mentions that he lowers the air pressure to 26psi and gets good cornering handling.

From the jump It's obvious you entertain no notion of a darkside ST handling anything like your Duc on or off the track. I think the worst that will happen to a conscientious rider is that you won't like the handling and go back to a motorcycle tire. If the idea of swapping to DS and back isn't egregious then you just have to sell a car tire.

The best thing that might happen is you find the handling acceptable for what you want to do with an ST on the street and you go 40,000mi between tire changes.

I can imagine that it’s like going into chicanes were you have to “be aggressive” to throw the bike from left/right/right/left, if you don’t hold and push hard, your not making it.

I'm not so sure that's the case unless maybe you want to be fast or at least brisk through the turns. But I haven't ridden DS. Still I haven't seen that level of effort mentioned.


You might start here for some hands on expertise.

 

[wjbertrand]

I would reserve "cornering" for motorcycle tires and call CT turning "edging".... Tried a bike with a CT once, hated the handling, not for me.

 

[dduelin]

Might as well start asking about politics, guns, or religion.

 

[SMSW]

I can imagine that it’s like going into chicanes were you have to “be aggressive” to throw the bike from left/right/right/left, if you don’t hold and push hard, your not making it.

Seriously, I think you have never tried an old Moto Guzzi. While I am reasonably sure that bikes set up by Dr. John to race were good handlers, my stock SP 1000 and T3 were very stable - that is rock solid in a straight line. Turns? You had to pick your line, hit it and the bike was again, stable and like it was on rails. What if you wanted to change the line mid turn? The bike was on rails, remember? My ST is amazing. while I know I've never taken it even close to the limit, it is confidence inspiring and I can change my line through a curve by thinking about it. The Guzzi's took effort. While a pro could take even my stock bikes through a road course with a great lap time, there is no doubt at all in my mind that he would be 'working' the bike.

edit. I never tried a Le Mans. Maybe they were better handlers. And my old Geese were an '86 and '74, not comparable to modern bikes (except maybe in reliability).

 

[cyberwolf009]

I've never ridden a dark side bike, but have ridden with a couple of guys that have them on their bikes. The consensus seems to be that you need to get used to them, but once you do it's no big deal. I can say that a guy I know with a darksided VTX that can handle twisty roads just fine. I've ridden behind him and it's interesting to watch the tire squish but stay planted around the turns.

 

[TourNut]

I rode dark side last yr at the RockStoc rally around Ouray , Co. . We got into some somewhat steep switchbacks on the Million Dollar Hwy that was just loose pea gravel thrown on top of tar . I heard others complaining about their rear M. T. slipping on that but my GYTT C.T. didn't slide at all - same speeds , which was fine by me with the deep drop-offs so close to the side of the roads without guardrails . ( BattLax BT-45 rear on front )
Paved roads with curves - no problem at all , just like M.T.s I used previously .

 

[spiderman302]

Technology and product advancements sometimes changes "rules" that were once true, given old recipes..
Tires have changed a lot in the past 50 years. We only know a tip of that iceberg.
Go look up how silica has destroyed the idea that only softer rubber has better traction.
Modern tires are harder for longer life but have silica and other secret stuff that gives the tire more adhesion to the road.

A few years ago I was putting my commuter bike into the shop 5 times a year to replace the tires (front and rear wear out a different times).
So I looked for a better solution and found others using car tires on bikes. I am an engineer. so I did my research. I did my homework.
Considered all the trade offs and took the plunge. Now I replace my tires every two years. But I found out that there is more to it than saving time and money.

Digression. I grew up with jeeps and 4x4 vehicles. If you take a truck off road with skinny tires set a 50 psi. you will beat your self up and get stuck. Wide tires and low pressure makes better traction and a better ride off-road...

Back to motorcycles. Since a car tire is wider and stronger than a MC tire. I tried different tire pressures and found that with the BF Goodrich tire set at 26 psi did two things. It got rid of the "odd feel" that car tires have when leaning the bike over. but the best part is that is gives the bike a super smooth "Cadillac"ride. It is like floating on air. Lower pressure also gives a larger contact patch on the road even when leaning over.
The correct tire pressure makes a big difference.

The BF Goodrich comp-2 tire also has a slightly rounded edge on the tread which also helps when you lean the bike. I live where there are lots of fun curvy mountain roads. This tire sticks like glue while cornering. Now I only have about 106,000 miles riding on, my fourth, car tire. for my riding style and needs the car tire is the perfect solution with no down sides......

 

[Netling]

Technology and product advancements sometimes changes "rules" that were once true, given old recipes..
Tires have changed a lot in the past 50 years. We only know a tip of that iceberg.
Go look up how silica has destroyed the idea that only softer rubber has better traction.
Modern tires are harder for longer life but have silica and other secret stuff that gives the tire more adhesion to the road.

A few years ago I was putting my commuter bike into the shop 5 times a year to replace the tires (front and rear wear out a different times).
So I looked for a better solution and found others using car tires on bikes. I am an engineer. so I did my research. I did my homework.
Considered all the trade offs and took the plunge. Now I replace my tires every two years. But I found out that there is more to it than saving time and money.

Digression. I grew up with jeeps and 4x4 vehicles. If you take a truck off road with skinny tires set a 50 psi. you will beat your self up and get stuck. Wide tires and low pressure makes better traction and a better ride off-road...

Back to motorcycles. Since a car tire is wider and stronger than a MC tire. I tried different tire pressures and found that with the BF Goodrich tire set at 26 psi did two things. It got rid of the "odd feel" that car tires have when leaning the bike over. but the best part is that is gives the bike a super smooth "Cadillac"ride. It is like floating on air. Lower pressure also gives a larger contact patch on the road even when leaning over.
The correct tire pressure makes a big difference.

The BF Goodrich comp-2 tire also has a slightly rounded edge on the tread which also helps when you lean the bike. I live where there are lots of fun curvy mountain roads. This tire sticks like glue while cornering. Now I only have about 106,000 miles riding on, my fourth, car tire. for my riding style and needs the car tire is the perfect solution with no down sides......

Damn you Spider-Man, not only are you my hero but you’re making a convincing case to go to the darkside! Are you the dark Spider-Man?

I live in Denver, so those squirrelly roads are my backyard and hence my consideration of how CT would handle those curves.

I know that I first need to get my bike on the road, Saturday fuel pump arrivals so will be riding, being my riding background, I have to remember that I’m riding a touring bike with saddles and not a Ducati, to relax and enjoy the ride versus pushing towards the edge to gain a half second. ;-) I’m really looking forward to it!

Either tires are next on the list once I get running or some other alternatives, which we won’t discuss.

Thank you for the information on the tires your running and the PSI.

- enjoy!
Charlie

 

[M Rogers]

I have had to replace two pairs of my wife’s riding shoes cuz she scrapes them going around corners, from the passenger position

I’m an old....er knee scrapper also. This bike gives you the best of both worlds and a solid upper body workout during a hard ride

 

[ST Gui]

Might as well start asking about politics, guns, or religion.

Mellow does put the kibosh on making this place Gun Talk where every owner is a quick draw artist/expert shot/former Scout/SEAL sniper/armorer/can hit a dime with an AK at 500m i.e.braggart/liar and where every firearm he doesn't own is a POC and everyone who doesn't own one is a commie-liberal sympathizer. Those are fun places to visit but I wouldn't want to post there.

 

[Netling]

I have had to replace two pairs of my wife’s riding shoes cuz she scrapes them going around corners, from the passenger position

I’m an old....er knee scrapper also. This bike gives you the best of both worlds and a solid upper body workout during a hard ride

Are you running CT on the bike?

 

[Al st1100]

Someone on this site< a while back, had a bad tank slapper weave at about 105 mph with a car tire on the rear. He stated that he never had the weave before the car tire. If your dragging a knee at 80 mph stick with a motorcycle tire IMO. As far as snow and ice are concerned I'm sure any tire won't work.

 

[M Rogers]

Are you running CT on the bike?

Sorry, not to hip on the CT reference, it means??

 

[dduelin]

Sorry, not to hip on the CT reference, it means??

Car Tire.