@spiderman302 those lights look a lot like the PIAA's in how they have the emitter on one end and use the reflector to disperse the light in the desired pattern.
Driving vs Passing lights -- LED
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I saw that light on line. But without real power numbers and a beam pattern on a wall and that high of a price tag I took a pass.
I experiment with the cheep stuff because I take them apart and tweak them.
Being an EE, I have carefully boosted the power on some to see what kind of lux increase I can get.
That half reflector is very efficient and should be glare free but again it is about a proper light pattern with a clean cutoff.
Even the one that I am testing now does not have the best pattern but it has a clean cutoff and It will do for the time being.
I experiment with the cheep stuff because I take them apart and tweak them.
Being an EE, I have carefully boosted the power on some to see what kind of lux increase I can get.
That half reflector is very efficient and should be glare free but again it is about a proper light pattern with a clean cutoff.
Even the one that I am testing now does not have the best pattern but it has a clean cutoff and It will do for the time being.
I agree about being pricey. Even one of the generic knockoffs I was looking at was $$$, but no longer available. It's a lot of money to spend for things that may be sub par. Thanks again for the stuff you research and pass along to the rest of us!
Those PIAAs are interesting lights. Pricey yeah (not surprising for a "name" brand) but still interesting.
Not bad looking either not that it should matter. But I like the look much better than the typical fly-eye LED lamps. The reverse LED (facing the reflector) positioning looks good on paper. Maybe there'll be some online reviews. 6000K seem awfully cool to me. Manufacturers sure demonstrate a wide range of color temperatures to represent daylight.
Unfortunately market plays heavy even from a "better" manufacturer. Here's a graphic that's supposed to represent the ability of these cubes:
But there's no reference to what part of that might represent the performance of the Cubes. A few unknowns there. Still a possible consideration.
My only immediate question at this point is if the lights can be hung from a bracket instead of mounted on/above it. The bracket looks like it has only one mounted position on the lamp. Maybe the four screws can be removed and the bulb/reflector assembly rotated 180º.
Not bad looking either not that it should matter. But I like the look much better than the typical fly-eye LED lamps. The reverse LED (facing the reflector) positioning looks good on paper. Maybe there'll be some online reviews. 6000K seem awfully cool to me. Manufacturers sure demonstrate a wide range of color temperatures to represent daylight.
Unfortunately market plays heavy even from a "better" manufacturer. Here's a graphic that's supposed to represent the ability of these cubes:
But there's no reference to what part of that might represent the performance of the Cubes. A few unknowns there. Still a possible consideration.
My only immediate question at this point is if the lights can be hung from a bracket instead of mounted on/above it. The bracket looks like it has only one mounted position on the lamp. Maybe the four screws can be removed and the bulb/reflector assembly rotated 180º.
PIAA | RF Series 3" LED Cube Light Driving Beam Kit, SAE Compliant #7603
#7603 - RF Series 3" LED Cube Light Driving Beam Kit, SAE Compliant
www.piaa.com
I've only seen these style lights on some of the extreme Red Bull type off road race vehicles with a row of them across the roof line. No idea how well they'd work on a bike at all.Those PIAAs are interesting lights. Pricey yeah (not surprising for a "name" brand) but still interesting.
Not bad looking either not that it should matter. But I like the look much better than the typical fly-eye LED lamps. The reverse LED (facing the reflector) positioning looks good on paper. Maybe there'll be some online reviews. 6000K seem awfully cool to me. Manufacturers sure demonstrate a wide range of color temperatures to represent daylight.
Unfortunately market plays heavy even from a "better" manufacturer. Here's a graphic that's supposed to represent the ability of these cubes:
But there's no reference to what part of that might represent the performance of the Cubes. A few unknowns there. Still a possible consideration.
My only immediate question at this point is if the lights can be hung from a bracket instead of mounted on/above it. The bracket looks like it has only one mounted position on the lamp. Maybe the four screws can be removed and the bulb/reflector assembly rotated 180º.
PIAA | RF Series 3" LED Cube Light Driving Beam Kit, SAE Compliant #7603
#7603 - RF Series 3" LED Cube Light Driving Beam Kit, SAE Compliantwww.piaa.com
Lights don't care what vehicle they're on. The light pattern doesn't change. It's a matter of the location on the bike and mount used to secure them to the vehicle.
The lights across the top of road race vehicles most likely fall into the off-road only category. As previously mentioned the beam pattern is somewhat of an unknown but these lights aren't billed as "high-beam" lights so far as I can tell. They appear to have a beam shaping lens compared to a lot of LED lamps that are either spot/bigger spot or flood/bigger flood categories. A flat cutoff has been the exception more than the rule. Reviews may shed some... Well - you know.
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PIAA's own description is a driving light.
The beam pattern in one of their photos shows that the beam is too tall, so if pointed down there would be too much close in light that would render it useless as a passing light.
SAE threw out J582 for passing lights years ago because there were no good aux low beam lights available at that time and they could not figure out how to spec it.
Passing lights have had a dark past due to poor implementation and goofy stuff. We have better tech, so we have better options here.
Actually there is really no need for the SAE J582 spec since passing lights are aux low beams so that DOT 108 provides sufficient guidelines here.
I got flack for trying to make a better H4 LED from the junk from China. What the experts said was so bad about LEDS actually made the F3 LED bulb a better solution.
Let us be pro active here and not reactive.
The beam pattern in one of their photos shows that the beam is too tall, so if pointed down there would be too much close in light that would render it useless as a passing light.
SAE threw out J582 for passing lights years ago because there were no good aux low beam lights available at that time and they could not figure out how to spec it.
Passing lights have had a dark past due to poor implementation and goofy stuff. We have better tech, so we have better options here.
Actually there is really no need for the SAE J582 spec since passing lights are aux low beams so that DOT 108 provides sufficient guidelines here.
I got flack for trying to make a better H4 LED from the junk from China. What the experts said was so bad about LEDS actually made the F3 LED bulb a better solution.
Let us be pro active here and not reactive.
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So this is what the 3E light looks like and how it fits, being so wide. I did have to use an over size nut as a spacer to lift the light higher so it would clear the windshield.
shown with the 3 inch driving light pod for comparison.
shown with the 3 inch driving light pod for comparison.
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The 2E fog/passing light above is a reflector, but best part it is half a parabola.
In order to make a sharp cutoff, the led is NOT at the focus point but slightly offset.
Yes, this is the same trick that the H4 low beam uses to create it's awesome cutoff.
How?
If you have an old focusing flashlight (Maglight) focus the beam to a sharp spot on the wall.
Now cover half the lens with a card. The spot will dim a little with no cutoff.
Now slightly defocus the beam so there is a small donut pattern on the wall.
Now cover half the lens with a card. You will see half a donut with sharp cutoff.
This trick is also used in your projector light to create sharp cutoff.
Most full reflector, focused, low beam and fog lights cannot achieve this sharp cutoff.
They have a softer gradient and end up with slightly higher levels of glare.
You end up having to point more of the beam down into the dirt to protect on coming drivers from this glare.
You might notice that many of the newer cars with led reflector, low beam headlights are half reflectors. Now you know why.
Reflectors are more efficient than projectors.
Passing lights need to have the sharp cutoff so that they can be optimally used with the low beam.
But here is the problem with this 2E light, it has a simple flat pattern.
If you look at fog lights, they use a linear spread lens to spread out the light.
But the road in front of us is a trapezoid, wide and close at the base, narrow and far at the top.
So it would be better if the fog lens was a linear tapered spread lens.
If the grooves were shallow at the top of the lens and deep grooves at the bottom of the lens.
This would focus more light at the top of the beam and spread more light at the bottom creating a trapezoid pattern.
Side note: Farmers have been using trapezoid floods on their tractors for decades.
This could be augmented by slightly skewing the parabola to focus more light to the top of the pattern than the bottom.
Now we have a light that puts more light where it is needed, down the road and less where it is not needed, in front of the vehicle.
This is what is needed for a better aux low beam.
You might notice that old sealed beams were a patch work quilt of lens.
This is what was done to make a better low beam before we had computers and CAD.
A single solution is not what is needed.
My motorcycle has a wide low beam that does not reach far.
My truck DOT low beam is a spot that reaches far but has poor side illumination.
Each needs a different aux low beam pattern, in a passing light, to fill their respective voids.
More opportunities.
also note the the led is a rectangle in the above light. It keeps the pattern wide and not tall.
The thin long led used on the old F2 would be better here.
California Vehicle Code 24402
(b) Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two auxiliary passing lamps mounted on the front at a height of not less than 24 inches nor more than 42 inches. Passing lamps are lamps designed for supplementing the lower beam from headlamps and may also be lighted with the upper beam.
Yes. They can be used with your low beam, on the road and the Vehicle Code says you can!
After Market light vendors - please stuff an aux low beam with a sharp cutoff into a 3 inch pod and they will sell.......
Your customers will now know what to look for.
Spread the word.
In order to make a sharp cutoff, the led is NOT at the focus point but slightly offset.
Yes, this is the same trick that the H4 low beam uses to create it's awesome cutoff.
How?
If you have an old focusing flashlight (Maglight) focus the beam to a sharp spot on the wall.
Now cover half the lens with a card. The spot will dim a little with no cutoff.
Now slightly defocus the beam so there is a small donut pattern on the wall.
Now cover half the lens with a card. You will see half a donut with sharp cutoff.
This trick is also used in your projector light to create sharp cutoff.
Most full reflector, focused, low beam and fog lights cannot achieve this sharp cutoff.
They have a softer gradient and end up with slightly higher levels of glare.
You end up having to point more of the beam down into the dirt to protect on coming drivers from this glare.
You might notice that many of the newer cars with led reflector, low beam headlights are half reflectors. Now you know why.
Reflectors are more efficient than projectors.
Passing lights need to have the sharp cutoff so that they can be optimally used with the low beam.
But here is the problem with this 2E light, it has a simple flat pattern.
If you look at fog lights, they use a linear spread lens to spread out the light.
But the road in front of us is a trapezoid, wide and close at the base, narrow and far at the top.
So it would be better if the fog lens was a linear tapered spread lens.
If the grooves were shallow at the top of the lens and deep grooves at the bottom of the lens.
This would focus more light at the top of the beam and spread more light at the bottom creating a trapezoid pattern.
Side note: Farmers have been using trapezoid floods on their tractors for decades.
This could be augmented by slightly skewing the parabola to focus more light to the top of the pattern than the bottom.
Now we have a light that puts more light where it is needed, down the road and less where it is not needed, in front of the vehicle.
This is what is needed for a better aux low beam.
You might notice that old sealed beams were a patch work quilt of lens.
This is what was done to make a better low beam before we had computers and CAD.
A single solution is not what is needed.
My motorcycle has a wide low beam that does not reach far.
My truck DOT low beam is a spot that reaches far but has poor side illumination.
Each needs a different aux low beam pattern, in a passing light, to fill their respective voids.
More opportunities.
also note the the led is a rectangle in the above light. It keeps the pattern wide and not tall.
The thin long led used on the old F2 would be better here.
California Vehicle Code 24402
(b) Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two auxiliary passing lamps mounted on the front at a height of not less than 24 inches nor more than 42 inches. Passing lamps are lamps designed for supplementing the lower beam from headlamps and may also be lighted with the upper beam.
Yes. They can be used with your low beam, on the road and the Vehicle Code says you can!
After Market light vendors - please stuff an aux low beam with a sharp cutoff into a 3 inch pod and they will sell.......
Your customers will now know what to look for.
Spread the word.
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FYI
US DOT FMVSS 108 is a long document. Below is a summary test point chart for the low beam.
You can see how the road makes a triangle, so that a trapezoid pattern would cover both sides of the road as well.
The points that have the yellow boxes are the maximum values and they only define the areas of glare.
The other values are minimum values and define the areas of illumination.
There is no maximum value for the hot spot of illumination for the low beam!
The critical glare values are at 6 and 7 and those values were derived in the days of sloppy tungsten sealed low beams.
aux low beam lights built with a sharp cutoff will be better.
US DOT FMVSS 108 is a long document. Below is a summary test point chart for the low beam.
You can see how the road makes a triangle, so that a trapezoid pattern would cover both sides of the road as well.
The points that have the yellow boxes are the maximum values and they only define the areas of glare.
The other values are minimum values and define the areas of illumination.
There is no maximum value for the hot spot of illumination for the low beam!
The critical glare values are at 6 and 7 and those values were derived in the days of sloppy tungsten sealed low beams.
aux low beam lights built with a sharp cutoff will be better.
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I have added some more fog light entry's to my above table. (post 13)
These lights have better cutoff than the other so called fog lights.
Again the importance of cutoff is that it enables the light to put the most light on the horizontal line with out creating glare.
Most reflector (non H4) and TIR optic fog lights have have soft cutoff lines and and the bright "spot" is centered in the beam pattern.
This puts the bright area lower on the road and not toward horizon to get better distance.
Now fog lights do not need distance but passing lights do as they need to do what your low beam does.
The 4bangers implemented some nifty skewing of the optics to shift the brighter area up to the cutoff line and to make the cutoff a bit better.
The DD elite also improved the sharpness of the cutoff.
They are a step in the right direction, but fall slightly short as passing lights.
The HXB is 700 lux at 18 feet and the goal is 2000 to 3000 lux at 18 feet.
This goal sounds like a lot, but light is logarithmic, it takes 4x more to go twice the distance, to get to 300 feet.
The 3E light above gets us into this ball park. If you mount the 3E upside down you will get a darker cutoff.
Mounted upright the emitters will give a little up light, that is still below glare limits.
The 3E light is 1850 Lux in the center and 850 Lux at the edges.
I would like to see is 1850 near the top edge, 850 at the center, and 400 at the bottom.
Much room for improvements.
These lights have better cutoff than the other so called fog lights.
Again the importance of cutoff is that it enables the light to put the most light on the horizontal line with out creating glare.
Most reflector (non H4) and TIR optic fog lights have have soft cutoff lines and and the bright "spot" is centered in the beam pattern.
This puts the bright area lower on the road and not toward horizon to get better distance.
Now fog lights do not need distance but passing lights do as they need to do what your low beam does.
The 4bangers implemented some nifty skewing of the optics to shift the brighter area up to the cutoff line and to make the cutoff a bit better.
The DD elite also improved the sharpness of the cutoff.
They are a step in the right direction, but fall slightly short as passing lights.
The HXB is 700 lux at 18 feet and the goal is 2000 to 3000 lux at 18 feet.
This goal sounds like a lot, but light is logarithmic, it takes 4x more to go twice the distance, to get to 300 feet.
The 3E light above gets us into this ball park. If you mount the 3E upside down you will get a darker cutoff.
Mounted upright the emitters will give a little up light, that is still below glare limits.
The 3E light is 1850 Lux in the center and 850 Lux at the edges.
I would like to see is 1850 near the top edge, 850 at the center, and 400 at the bottom.
Much room for improvements.
Hey Spidey,
Did you replace the mount bolt for the fender with the one included with the Zmoon light? I have a set of CREE U7s I was going to mount on the forks but these look better.
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No.
I had previously mounted a 3 inch fog light at this location. When I removed the reflector I bought a bolt that was the same thread as the reflector so that I could reuse the captive nut.
When I removed the old fog light I left the mounting bolt for the new light. I put reflective tape to make up for the missing reflector.
I had previously mounted a 3 inch fog light at this location. When I removed the reflector I bought a bolt that was the same thread as the reflector so that I could reuse the captive nut.
When I removed the old fog light I left the mounting bolt for the new light. I put reflective tape to make up for the missing reflector.
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Wow, these 3E passing lights work very well. I am impressed.
So, I have been using these passing lights during my night commute home over this past winter (short days and time change).
My commute is about one hour, and I pass opposite maybe 20,000+ cars.
With all the extra light that these things put out, no one has ever flashed me to object to the extra light. Good cutoff.
Being able to see pedestrians, bicyclists, coyotes, raccoons, and other hazards further down road makes for a safer passage.
I have mounted a pair on my Suburban which has the better "DOT" low beam pattern and they really help there too.
It is nice that I can use them all the time with my F2 Plus LED low beams with no complaints from opposing drivers.
If you ride at night these 3E passing lights are the best that I have found so far. 3E Passing light
If you are new to this thread re-read the first post, and my following posts for explanations.
So, I have been using these passing lights during my night commute home over this past winter (short days and time change).
My commute is about one hour, and I pass opposite maybe 20,000+ cars.
With all the extra light that these things put out, no one has ever flashed me to object to the extra light. Good cutoff.
Being able to see pedestrians, bicyclists, coyotes, raccoons, and other hazards further down road makes for a safer passage.
I have mounted a pair on my Suburban which has the better "DOT" low beam pattern and they really help there too.
It is nice that I can use them all the time with my F2 Plus LED low beams with no complaints from opposing drivers.
If you ride at night these 3E passing lights are the best that I have found so far. 3E Passing light
If you are new to this thread re-read the first post, and my following posts for explanations.
Thanks !!!!!
By upside down - meaning wire exiting from the top of the light as in your picture?
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Yes with the wire coming out of the top. I later put a bead of RTV silicon glue to seal the wire-hole.
