Entering progressively from behind...

ad.hom

Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
1,070
Age
41
Location
UK
Bike
2002 ST1300A
STOC #
9004
... I mean the castle!

As a little background for this, @Kaiser Swaghelm II have had a chinwag or 3. He's posted a few video's online of his riding, and as per his thread today he wants to improve his riding. So I figured I would "react" to one of his videos, with one of mine.

I can talk on the video, but because Leon currently can't, I figured I'd shut up for this one.

The intent of this video, is mostly that I was just out for a "bimble" while making some attempt at progress. In the video of Leon's, I disliked a few aspects. But I'm not claiming to be a better rider than he, just offering another viewpoint. The parts I disagreed with in his, were mostly the overtakes (over hashing and over solid white lines), but also the speed (nothing wrong with closing the throttle approaching a hazard). So I went looking for overtakes, to demonstrate them a different way.

Feel free to be as critical as you like, I'm a big boy, and this is completely unedited (and a little short of an hour). Anyhow, enjoy, or not.

PS. We've talked about this potentially becoming an ongoing series of back & forth. There may be more of these... and if you want to see Leon's that inspired this, check the description of my video (or he's welcome to link to it himself, etc).

PPS. I had to re-flash the Sena to get it working, and it defaulted back to 1080p and seems to have lost image stabalisation. I'll sort those for the next run, apologies. Also, you'll hear some wind noise, because I was riding for parts of it with the helmet "open."
 
I have no idea how fast you were going, but if this video was in real time, you were traveling about a second to 1.5 seconds behind that car in the beginning. I feel uncomfortable that close to the car/bike in front of me.
 
@ad.hom, "entering progressively from behind"?
Note to self, get your mind out of the gutter big lad. Message received.
I have to admit to not watching every minute but I've got a good overview. It comes over as a nice steady progressive ride. The thought of talking a ride through in your head is strange to many but there is no (IMO) better way to concentrate the mind and raise hazard perception. I could hear you saying quietly to yourself, "approaching a minor junction, be aware of farm plant that may be approaching, position the bike to the right, tractor appeared, check to rear and oncoming traffic, etc".
Keep up the good work squire.
Upt'North.
 
SMSW said:
I have no idea how fast you were going, but if this video was in real time
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The video is in real time, with no editing (other than stitching "loops" together). I do take your point though.

I start out approx 2 secs back from the silver car, and at about 1min into the video we're doing 60mph. Ball park 2secs as I measure from the sign on the left warning of a sharp right bend. Turning left at 1min 30 to climb the hill, speeds are down to 30-40mph, and as I measure it, I'm still ball park 2 secs.

Climbing up the hill, I do close in on that car. There's a reason for it though. Half way up the hill, I'm about 1sec behind and speeds are about 30mph. Not everyone will be comfortable doing this, especially on a tight main road that can have a mix of semi's/caravans/tractors on it. 1min 56, and I'm about 1.5 secs away, and as we climb more, I'm again about 1sec away.

When we start the descent, I'm still pretty close, but that's the reason I started moving up. The sweeping right hander, where the van turns left into the junction, there's a "long" (in Welsh terms) downhill straight, and heavy traffic tends to be sluggish coming up, so it's a good spot for overtaking. By moving up, and sitting close-ish behind, I'm signalling to the driver "when it's safe, I'm going to be coming past you" - especially true with side/head lights on (I had side lights on).

As it turns out, there was heavy oncoming and I never got the chance. I could have pushed it on the 2nd half of the straight, but knowing the area, I know there's more straights coming, so I'd rather not head downhill offsiding into the blind corner. So I backed off, anticipating traffic emerging from junctions at the honey farm around the next few bends. We pass the honey farm, and I pass that car (being mindful not to cross solid whites), before opportunities close again for the cross roads.

Again, I get your point, and if I wasn't about to be looking for an overtake, I would have been sat back and chilling out.

@Upt' North - skip to about 50mins in, and I come into Conwy castle from the small rear entrance (so narrow, you have to give priority to oncoming). That's the reason for the title. But yes, you're right, I was muttering similar things in my head. I didn't speak aloud on this video simply because I don't want Leon to think I'm trying to teach anything, on this first (of however many) reactionary videos. I tend not to say things like "be aware of farm machinery emerging" - round these parts, you'd just hear that on loop constantly! Instead, I prefer "tractor spotted, does he have a buddy hiding somewhere?"

In truth, it was a run down the A470, following the banks of the River Conwy to Betws-y-coed, then back up the B-road. I know the area pretty well since I used to live in one of the villages on the B-road, and most of the traffic on the A470 was sat at the limit (plus the infamy of speed cameras in NSL areas on that road).

Perhaps if this "series" continues, some annotation of talking points, or just editing it down to the talking points, could be helpful to generate discussion.
 
Good video of a rider riding conservatively. I spent a long winter watching dash cam accidents. I came to the realization that there are just a handful of situations that generate the greatest number of accidents. Almost always it is a vehicle making a turn that crosses oncoming traffic. At an intersection of not, it seems this is the number one problem area. If there is more than one travel lane in each direction, it compounds the problem. Passing a vehicle that is turning, legally or not, with oncoming traffic is a recipe for disaster. Following distance makes a huge difference in visibility and reaction time. I don't rightly care what the traffic laws are, I ride for self preservation. Not that I ride aggressively, or particularly fast, I just have no hesitation breaking any rule if my safety is in question.

RT
 
Bush said:
Two second rule, no matter the speed?
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I've said before (more than a few times) that I ride with a BMW club. The ride leader always makes a point of that 2 second rule so our line is not stretching out over too great a distance. This is me only, everyone is free to pick his own spacing, BUT 2 seconds seems to be the absolute minimum. I've found if I am not concentrating on the rider ahead (ignoring scenery, wildlife in yards (little dog or deer), traffic from the sides, etc.) this is simply not enough time. If I glance at that tractor on the left or the guy mowing close to the road on the right just as the bike in front of me swerves to avoid a dead raccoon, there is precious little time to also swerve or brake. I'm constantly opening up the distance to more like 4 seconds, or even more depending on the speed. Same with following cars, unless I am planning to pass. In that case, yes, I'm focusing 100% on the car but I still maintain a healthy distance. I always want to accelerate in the passing lane but have the option of braking and tucking back in behind the car should a rodent or dog rocket out of the drainage ditch.

Not sure how others ride, but I like to see the area I'm riding through, and not only the stretch of road ahead. I remember a few years ago I read that some Iron Butt rider said, I've visited 50 national parks in the last 11 days, but I saw nothing.... That's not my style of riding.
 
I like at least 2+ seconds, more is better. Except in heavy traffic, I actually close that distance a bit. Give cagers the room, and they will occupy it. Stay closer, focus on what is next to you and as far ahead as you can see. If 10 cars ahead, that driver swerves, hits the brakes, etc. that problem is coming your way. Could be a road gator, roadkill, etc. Light traffic I space as far out as possible. I'm often running faster than most as I prefer to be overtaking than a sitting duck. Minimizing time in blind spots, etc. Avoid the center lane like the plague. Right or left I have options in the breakdown lane or shoulder. Boxed in is bad juju.

When I get on the highway to come home everyday, the first mile is a 5 lane over a bridge with right AND left exits directly after the bridge. This produces mayhem with multiple 5 lane changes as the idiots find their way. The best way to get through this is to stay in the right lane, which is a right exit only lane directly after the bridge. I can then make one quick lane change, to the next right turn only lane (yeah, two in a row) , and 1/4 mile one more to stay on the slab. This largely avoids the lunacy. Thankfully, this is the worst part of it, it opens up after that.

RT
 
@SMSW - we've had a few chats, it seems we use the helmets the same way, and ride the same.

When I've been out in groups, there's very few rules (except the "do not overtake the leader") unless working a nominated position (leader/marker/TEC). That has lead to some very - dubious - moments, but it is what it is.

If nothing else, I'm glad the video has generated the 2+sec debate.

rwthomas1 said:
If 10 cars ahead, that driver swerves, hits the brakes, etc. that problem is coming your way.
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My dad was a driving instructor, in the few years before I was old enough to learn to drive. A friend of his was my official instructor, and I spent a chunk of time at a complex used to train stunt drivers. That sentiment of "10 cars ahead" is almost what my Dad described my first time driving on the motorway (freeway). In his words "forget what's immediately around you, let your peripheral vision deal with that, you'll see anything moving how it shouldn't with some experience. Concentrate on the only 2 real dangers. 2 miles or more ahead of you, and whatever crazy idiot is coming up behind you. Anything else will be a side swipe, and we'll walk away from it." (The latter part doesn't really hold true for bikers, but the point is the same).
 
Here's one explanation as to why the 2-second rule applies at any speed:

Remaining at least 2 seconds from the vehicle in front will provide a distance of one car length per 5 mph, at which ever speed you drive. The 2 second rule is used regardless of speed because the distance between your vehicle and the one in front will extend the faster you travel.
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The article goes on to talk about a 4-second and 10-second rule based on weather and road conditions.

Having used the 2-second rule on surface streets and highways/motorways I tend to favor around a 3-second rule as on the latter. 2s puts me closer than I'm comfortable at >60mph. But I see "at least" 2s as a really good starting point for me.
 
put your wife on the back of the bike and she will point out your errors and dangerous maneuvers. Gotta love back seat drivers NOT.
 
Al st1100 said:
put your wife on the back of the bike and she will point out your errors and dangerous maneuvers. Gotta love back seat drivers NOT.
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True story, I told her the day before the ride, along with the reasons why I was going out & making a video.

"I should have some riding gear"

I didn't respond. If she wants to ride pillion, she can pay for the kit. I won't be the one telling her to pay for it though. No-one gets on the back without proper kit.
 
ST Gui said:
And who says romance is dead. LOL!
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I hear ya, but a healthy relationship requires time apart as well as time together. She's been talking about getting her own gear since I got the ST. We priced up the gear she wants, and there's not much change from £1000. For the 2 days a year she'll want to get on the back and it's not raining, that is a horrible ROI. If she'd commit to more time, I'd consider opening my Yorkshire wallet.

Kaiser Swaghelm II said:
Everyone has already said what I want to say.
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At my office, we tend to "pick on" the quiet ones in meetings. Well, I do, and the IT Director does. It's usually the quiet ones that have something valuable to say... so please, don't worry if someone else has said it before, say it anyway. Unless Mellow has started charging per post here. :rofl1:

EDIT: Also, changed the camera to 1440 today, and had a ride home from the office. Caught a couple of red light jumpers and had a good "narrated ride" down a fairly empty motorway. So I'll look at editing that together & throw that up.
 
Kaiser Swaghelm II said:
You're an exemplary rider!
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Lies, lies I tell thee! I still struggle with getting my right foot down when stopping at lights, so that my left is free for gear changes/neutral etc. I still wobble as I set off from a dead stop. I still have my feet "off peg" longer than I probably should when departing from a traffic light and trying to beat cagers, etc. Just that, on that run, there wasn't really any slow work.

Some days, my slow speed (gymkana style, sub 2mph) is awesome. Those days are rare, but I'm working on it. About 20mins before the video starts, I had to filter through stationary traffic on a single lane NSL. It was, frankly, awesome machine control (if I do say so myself), but I wasn't running the recording because I wanted to save the battery for the A470 & back.

Re the Landrover, I just re-watched it in it's 1080p "gloriousness" - yep, I could have sat wider, I could have gone faster, but you're right, I wasn't in a rush. Perhaps that's the key difference between the two video's - I deliberately wasn't in a rush, I don't know if you were, or if that's what you were emulating. I've been there before, in a rush, pushing hard - in one case that springs to mind, I was running late for a meeting with my lawyer, I kid you not, and I got a tug from an unmarked car that I overtook (and got away with it, despite no valid MOT and broken indicators at the time). The thing it taught me, was that as a civvy, being in a rush and getting caught, only makes you more late.

Even when rota'd on as First Responder and there is someone's life on the line, they really drum it into you not to take "excessive risk." Arriving to find the patient has passed away is better than dying enroute and the patient dying anyway. They'd probably need 2 crews to attend for what was a 1 crew situation. I grew up serving in St John's Ambulance, and my instructor for many years always repeated (and please, read in an Irish accent): "never tread where angels fear to tread." He has since passed, but I still repeat that sentence at least once a week to myself.

Kaiser Swaghelm II said:
So in my next video
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I look forward to it. :wine2: Adobe Premiere Pro is just trying to add some image stabilisation to my latest jaunt, and I'll start a new thread to garner opinions from everyone.

PS, no-one said what you did. So thanks. :)
 
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