Fall Compilation: How to Bail on an ADV

Andrew Shadow

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I thought of you (@Sadlsor) when I saw this- and no that is not intended as sarcasm in any way. It is intended to be helpful for anyone going off-road. I have very limited experience off-road riding. If I was planning to take it up, especially a big bike like a GS, I would like to know what gets people in to trouble. Hopefully it can be of some use to you and others.
 
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I have very limited experience off-road riding. If I was planning to take it up, especially a big bike like a GS, I would like to know what gets people in to trouble.
like the video says, if you go off road, you're going to fall off fairly regularly, its part of the ride.

In my younger days I rode both motocross bikes (not competitively, desert rides with friends) and street bikes. I'd always chuckle when meeting people at parties, etc. and the conversation turned to motorcycles (I may have had something to do with that). They'd usually say something like "I'd be OK with a dirt bike, but I'd never ride on the street, its too dangerous". Those of us who have ridden both get the humor in that comment, as riding off road is far more likely to involve crashing than on road (well, if you're always riding aggressively). Off road involves too many unexpected route turns, surface changes (like a 20 ft deep desert wash that isn't visible until you're right on top of it), sand, gravel, water, etc. It generally happens spontaneously without any advance warning, otherwise it would be a simple matter of taking corrective measures to avoid falling.

With motocross bikes, falling off generally meant picking the bike up and kicking it to start it up again. We'd usually keep the clutch and brake levers a little loose so if they happened to hit anything they'd rotate rather than break off, but standard procedure in the day was to keep spares on hand with tools to replace them in the case they did break on impact. We also rode in groups with backpacks of tools to do any kind of repairs on the trail (or tow the broken bike back) because we'd be many miles from civilization should anything happen.

Since ADV became a thing, and saddlebags were part of the picture, I suspect the consequences of falling off have increased, so I can't comment on that, but everything else about riding off pavement has pretty much stayed the same. I'm guessing that the level of aggressiveness we rode at on motorcross bikes was higher than what you'd attempt with a more expensive/heavy/complex ADV bike, so that is also a factor. We would climb boulder strewn slopes at 30-40 degree pitch for several hundred vertical feet to the top of a ridge, I suspect a smart ADV rider isn't going to be looking at something that challenging as a good idea to attempt, but I could be wrong. Actually, I suspect the power to weight ratio probably wouldn't make a climb like that possible anyway, but I could be wrong.

The upside of spending time riding in the dirt, you get a natural feel for how the bike responds when it loses rear wheel traction (or both wheels sometimes, like in deep sand) and it makes you a better street rider when the bike momentarily loses traction.
 
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Sadlsor

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I'm known to fall off big adventure bikes now and again, but lots less than when I started, 20 years ago and very late in life... meaning I had no prior dirt experience.
Just a cursory overview (I was taking a short break from site surveys), I noted riders seated when they probably should have been standing on the pegs, not cognizant of the slope of the terrain when they wanted to put a foot down (BTDT!), looking down when they should be looking up and ahead (we've all heard that before), and poor throttle/friction zone control.
Deep sand is just a bear, period but you really need speed with weight back so the front tire isn't pushing the sand, but riding more on top of it.
I'm not criticizing, merely commenting.
And riding across concrete spillways can be treacherous due to slick moss or algae growing on it under the water.
 

bdalameda

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I used to ride flat track, trials, raced enduros and did a lot of desert riding over the years and was a pretty competent off-roader. This skills I developed years ago have helped me a lot in my now elder years riding my Africa Twin. I do ride it off road and it is a lot heavier than the dirt bikes I used to ride. I have found that keeping the weight of the beast balanced and keeping momentum up is important. The front end of the heavier ADV bikes makes riding in ruts challenging and getting the tires out of ruts is a lot more difficult than riding lighter bikes. So many riders on ADV bikes forget about standing on the pegs so you can get your weight back far enough and use your weight to keep your balance. I also take off my hard bags if I am riding off-road and switch to my soft bags. Riding a big ADV like a GS feels a bit like riding a runaway hippo.
I find the DCT works pretty good off-road as stalling the engine is not an issue though you need to relearn how to ride without a clutch to pop the front end up and over things. The back brake is used like a clutch to do this and I have finally mastered this with the DCT. I am very careful to not ride over my head now as my old body does not bounce back from battle damage like it used too!
 
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Andrew Shadow

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These big ADV bikes can be surprisingly adept depending on the competency of the rider. Several times I met the man who used to train the Quebec Provincial Police motorcycle officers how to ride, so he was a very competent rider to say the least. His personal ride was a GS. I was astounded at what he could with that thing.

Quebec has a very extensive network of snowmobile trails. You can just about go anywhere by snowmobile, including hotels, restaurants, etc., for hundreds of miles. In the sumner many of these trails are a terror. Without the snow and ice to smooth them out, they are deeply rutted, festooned with boulders, creeks rivers, ravines, etc.. This guy would travel those trails with his GS, sometimes buried up to the axles, but he always made it to the road at the other end.
 

Sadlsor

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All of the better street riders that I have ever met usually started with dirt bikes off-road, which definitely seems to make for a better street rider.
And this is EXACTLY why I wanted to learn how to ride offroad in my 40s, after riding the streets since I was 13.
Besides, I wanna be someone who can do semi-amazing things on the big adventure bikes.
 
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rwthomas1

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All of the better street riders that I have ever met usually started with dirt bikes off-road, which definitely seems to make for a better street rider.
Most definitely! The flip side of that however is all the dirt bike guys I know who also ride street bikes have dropped said street bikes doing stupid things with them! My experience is they are much more aggressive.
 
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Andrew Shadow

Andrew Shadow

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Most definitely! The flip side of that however is all the dirt bike guys I know who also ride street bikes have dropped said street bikes doing stupid things with them! My experience is they are much more aggressive.
I have an opposite story for you.

Friend of mine was a dirt bike racer. He was really good, won the Eastern Ontario and Eastern Canada title, a couple of times I think. He never road a street bike until he was in his forties. For the longest time the first summer he rode like an old Grandmother. The reason why was all the traction that he wasn't use to. He was use to the rear-end sliding out on him in turns, and intentionally making it slide out at will to his advantage. On the street he suddenly had all this traction. The rear end never slid out and it freaked him out because he was always waiting and anticipating that it was going to let go on him. Once he accepted that it wasn't, he got on with riding and became a hell of a street rider as well.
 
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I watched about half the videos and can relate as I spend way more hours riding adv and dirt bikes than I do on pavement. Something I like in the title but not necessarily in each video was calling lots of the incidents 'falls' rather than crashes. I call those 0 mph tip overs. Still, it looked like there were plenty of injuries during the 'falls.' One way I avoid (mostly) injuries during falls is 1) accept I'm going to fall earlier than the last possible second and 2) get clear of the bike and 3) chose where I'm going to land by not holding on until the last possible second when I may not have that choice. Wearing good armor helps. If I fall and something pokes me painfully, I try to add armor to cover that spot with armor before the next ride. Something else that has helped me was I did judo and a kid and adult. Judo includes lots of falling practice - tuck your arm, tuck your chin and roll. ADV bikes are heavy and tall and it looks like several of the injuries were caused by just not letting them fall over. I spent over a decade riding my 950SE (moderately heavy and REALLY tall) into sometimes really difficult places for fun. But over that decade, advancing age and declining strength caused me to really begin to dislike all the falls due to riding a bike with a 37" seat height and a 30" inseam. So I sold it and bought a 1290SA T - lower seat height but 150 lbs heavier. I did successfully complete most of the SoCal BDR on that without tipovers but the sand was more like work than fun. So I relegated the 1290 to mostly street duty and bought a 701. Same silly seat height but 50 lbs less than the 950 and once again sand is fun. I may lower it 2" but haven't decided yet. Sand is even more fun on my latest moto - 2023 KTM450XCF W. Light is right especially when it comes to sand or other technical stuff. I think most of the ADV riders in those videos would benefit by at least riding a dirt bike of 250 lbs for a training class or ride or two before riding the big bike in dirt. Last thing - someone mentioned the trainer for the Quebec police riders and I'm guessing that was Clinton Smout. He's featured on many podcast episodes of Adventure Rider Radio - he seems like a great instructor and I always enjoy the podcasts where he's the guest giving instruction. I highly recommend them to aspiring advriders.
 

rwthomas1

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I have an opposite story for you.

Friend of mine was a dirt bike racer. He was really good, won the Eastern Ontario and Eastern Canada title, a couple of times I think. He never road a street bike until he was in his forties. For the longest time the first summer he rode like an old Grandmother. The reason why was all the traction that he wasn't use to. He was use to the rear-end sliding out on him in turns, and intentionally making it slide out at will to his advantage. On the street he suddenly had all this traction. The rear end never slid out and it freaked him out because he was always waiting and anticipating that it was going to let go on him. Once he accepted that it wasn't, he got on with riding and became a hell of a street rider as well.
That's a great story! All the dirt bike guys I know think they can wheelie any streetbike, with predictable results......
 
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Andrew Shadow

Andrew Shadow

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Last thing - someone mentioned the trainer for the Quebec police riders and I'm guessing that was Clinton Smout.
That was me, and no, not the same person. Smout is in Ontario. The guy I mentioned was, for several years at least, the person who trained the Quebec Motorcycle Officers how to ride, both on and off-road as they do have off-road Officers in some areas. I don't remember his name, but he could ride like hell on or off road. He sometimes gave the impression that he was a bit nuts and reckless with the things that he did with a motorcycle, but then again when you have the skill and experience behind you what looks nuts to others is just another ride I guess.
 

Sadlsor

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On a recent ARR podcast, Clinton was actually teaching the RCMP offroad skills, due to the fact that some perps they're after really do head for the woods when pursued.
And there are some ranger-types who work mostly in the forested areas.
 

Tor

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On a recent ARR podcast, Clinton was actually teaching the RCMP offroad skills, due to the fact that some perps they're after really do head for the woods when pursued.
And there are some ranger-types who work mostly in the forested areas.
Mark, have you been through Parsons Branch (out of Cades Cove, TN) on your 1250? Thats a fun road to take. Done it a few times on the GSA. Very nice offroad stretch actually. You end up on Tail Of The Dragon on the other side of the mountain.

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Sadlsor

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I have not.
I have ridden through Cades Cove, but street only, years ago.
Would like to check it out... Thanks!
 

W0QNX

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Even an ST1300GSA can do Parsons Branch. I might do it in the middle of summer drought when the creeks are dry.

Fun (wet roads) starts at the 33 minute mark.

 
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