Flat rear Avon Storm2 on ST1100

[uprubicon14]

I have a set of Avon S2 with 7000 miles on my 91 ST1100. I have been pretty happy with their handling and grip (yes, they make the front wobble slightly around 45 like all Storm2's do) They aren't worn down to the wear marks yet but are getting close.
I was riding up CA Hwy 49 about 3 miles West of Downieville, CA and the rear end started to feel loose so I pulled over just as the last of the air left the rear tire. As any of you who has had a rear flat knows, you can't just pop the bike up on the center stand and look for the leak; in fact, you can barely get it up on the side stand. I managed to roll the bike enough to locate the hole and it was fairly small, (I had hit a small rock about a mile earlier). Unfortunately for me I didn't have a plug kit, cel phone coverage and I didn't really know how far the next town was. I flagged down another bike and he was kind enough to ride into the next town and purchase a plug kit for me. I plugged the hole and took out my little 12 volt pump and after about 10 minutes and 30 psi it burned itself up. I rode slowly into the next town and put the rest of the air in and continued my ride to Lake Tahoe for the 4th.
Today on my ride down to get new tires (Bridgestone BT23's) the plug failed again and I had to replug the tire again, it held and got me home where I pulled my wheels to bring in to have the tires replaced.
Does anyone have experience with these tire plugs? Was I a moron to have ridden the bike that far on a plug? This was the first flat I have had so I really wasn't prepared, my pump was more for adjusting the pressure, not filling a flat tire, and I used an auto plug kit. What is a good plug for a motorcycle tire and what is a good pump, or CO2 cartridge that you guys have found works well? I am a bit surprised that the rock I hit punctured the tire so easily, is that common when the tires get a bit worn?

 

[sirepair]

I recently punched a hole in my rear STorm 2 also, only I hit a bolt that the heavy truck factory next to my work so kindly left in the road.

I was able to get the bike on the center stand, but it was a bit of a fight! I was close to town and my brother brought out my patch kit and compressor (that I left in another bike). Plugged and inflated, rode back to the shop and pulled the tire. Put a "proper" patch on the inside and remounted (no new tire to put on) and rode.

About a week later, while at work (I usually ride) someone stopped me and said "do you know you have a flat tire??". Uhhh, well I do NOW! Went out and checked the tire and could not find another hole, so I assume my patch let loose. "Bummer"!

I wasn't gonna attempt to put the bike on a trailer or in a truck, so I pulled the rear wheel and left the bike at work, on the center stand, with no rear wheel.

I mounted a new rear tire (PRII this time) and inspected the old STorm. I was quite surprised at how thin the carcus of the STorm is, though most modern radials seem to be thin.

From this experience I've learned that gummies aren't the best repair option for many motorcycle tires. I'm looking to get a "mushroom" plug kit to keep on the bike. My compressor (small Slime) did the job when needed (not the first tire it's inflated).

I still like the Avon STorms, and will use them again. I usually get about 8K from a rear, and only get the head shake when the front is 3/4+ worn. The PRII is also a good tire, I'll wait to see what type of mileage I get.

 

[uprubicon14]

You're probably right, the tire is too thin (especially with 7K on it) to properly hold an auto style tubeless tire plug. I just bought a Dyna-plug kit with the compressor (I hope it doesn't burn up like my old one!) They use a slightly different concept than the standard auto plugs and don't require reeming if the hole is small. Hopefully they will sit under my seat and collect dust!

 

[Mark]

I have used gummy worms in 2 tires without any issues, the third one leaked very slowly until I put in 2 worms. I used 'worms' from Walmart each time.
We rode those tires until the wear bars showed without issues.

But, all of those tires (storms by the way) were fairly new when they were holed.

Mark

 

[schlep1967]

What I have found from changing a few tires of my own and others is that when you get to the wear bars you should change the tire. Yes you may be able to get another 1000-2000 miles out of them if you are lucky but after you get to the wear bars the centerline of that tire is getting thin. 1000 miles later and you are risking a catastrophic failure on rubber that amounts to about 6 sheets of paper. I would advise anyone changing tires or having them changed to ask to see the old tire and push on the center of it with your finger. You will then realize just how thin they are. In my opinion, a plug in a newer tire or an old one is a temp fix. A patch plug like Pat mentioned is a fix for a newer tire.

 

[docw1]

Better do a test with the Dyna-plug first. I bought some and could never get it inserted. I'm just packing gummy worms and rubber cement now, along wiht my Slime compressor. Also using Ride-On, but never had a chance to give it a real-world test.

 

[Firstpeke]

Having had a discussion with the UK technical man, Peter McNally I seem to remember, he stated that Avon have started using steel cord in the STorm 2's because it is less expensive than using aramid or whatever they used before.

There are repercussions because of this.... certain repairs will not be as secure or efficient as a proper PRP (plug repair patch) fitted from the inside out as per car tyres. If done properly this can last the life of the tyre, as in, to worn out.
If not, it will likely fail.

The biggest issue with penetrating punctures on steel braced tyres is water ingress. If water gets into the casing structure via the puncture it will eventually corrode the bracing structure leading to a potentially catastrophic failure of the casing at some point in the future..... the steel cords, in the casing, can act like a saw and cut your plug too.....

My advice, if you can temporarily plug it, using plenty of rubber glue as supplied to act as both a lube and a sealant, do so, but let the rubber glue go "off" before inflating. Takes a few minutes.
BUT get it properly repaired at the earliest opportunity with a PRP at your tyre dealer, who should properly abrade the butyl liner and apply the PRP with the rubber glue from the inside out, rolling the patch part on inside using a repair roller to smooth it out and remove air from the patch.
The excess plug is then cut off on the outside close to the tread, but may need a little sanding or whatever to smooth it down close.

These repairs are usually seen as permanent and keep the water out.

Of course if your puncture is on the shoulder of the tyre, the dealer may refuse to repair it as tyres with V, Z or W rating have much stricter repair schemes.

HTH

 

[davehirst]

When you guys talk about "Gummy Worms" are you talking about the tary stringy things, or something different? I had a flat on my Corvette this weekend while visiting my daugher in Michigan, about 700 miles from home. I actually noticed the TPMS saying the pressure was down to 24. Did some checking, and found a screw in the tire. Went to Meijer and got those tar strings, and some slime. Put the plug in and also the slime. Came home and didn't loose any pressure. Will keep an eye on the tire,"but seems to be holding well. Anyway back to the "Worm" question?

 

[Mark]

Yup.
STicky tarry strings.
They come in different colors and I don't know what the different colors signify.
Some of them come with a tube/container of glue that you use, some don't.
I've used glue and glueless and had no problems with either.

 

[davehirst]

Yup.
STicky tarry strings.
They come in different colors and I don't know what the different colors signify.
Some of them come with a tube/container of glue that you use, some don't.
I've used glue and glueless and had no problems with either.

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know.

 

[uprubicon14]

Having had a discussion with the UK technical man, Peter McNally I seem to remember, he stated that Avon have started using steel cord in the STorm 2's because it is less expensive than using aramid or whatever they used before.

There are repercussions because of this.... certain repairs will not be as secure or efficient as a proper PRP (plug repair patch) fitted from the inside out as per car tyres. If done properly this can last the life of the tyre, as in, to worn out.
If not, it will likely fail.

The biggest issue with penetrating punctures on steel braced tyres is water ingress. If water gets into the casing structure via the puncture it will eventually corrode the bracing structure leading to a potentially catastrophic failure of the casing at some point in the future..... the steel cords, in the casing, can act like a saw and cut your plug too.....

My advice, if you can temporarily plug it, using plenty of rubber glue as supplied to act as both a lube and a sealant, do so, but let the rubber glue go "off" before inflating. Takes a few minutes.
BUT get it properly repaired at the earliest opportunity with a PRP at your tyre dealer, who should properly abrade the butyl liner and apply the PRP with the rubber glue from the inside out, rolling the patch part on inside using a repair roller to smooth it out and remove air from the patch.
The excess plug is then cut off on the outside close to the tread, but may need a little sanding or whatever to smooth it down close.

These repairs are usually seen as permanent and keep the water out.

Of course if your puncture is on the shoulder of the tyre, the dealer may refuse to repair it as tyres with V, Z or W rating have much stricter repair schemes.

HTH

BTW....Bridgestone BT23's have a steel belt as well, so Avon isn't the only company using steel.

 

[nhdiesel]

Well as a long-time auto repair tech who has repaired LOTS of tires, I have to say that most car tires still have steel belts, and that they hold plugs just fine, and usually go on to live a long, useful life. If the plug is installed properly, and glue is used, water will never get to the belts.

Just think- the belts are more than half way down into a tire (very thin layer between the inside of a tire end the belts; much more rubber on the outside). So a good portion of the sealing area of a plug is OUTSIDE of the belts. If water makes it to the belts, that plug isn't sealing well, and most likely will soon be losing air as well.

The only time I see issues with belts by a repair is when the offending item that punctured the tire in the first place damaged a belt(s).

Rereading the original post, I see his flat was caused by a rock. The best holes to repair are caused by small round items- think nails or small screws. Rocks are uneven and don't make a clean hole, and you have a much higher chance of the repair not holding. Although the hole may look small, the jagged, uneven rock can do more damage than is seen by eye.

Jim