Fork Oil Interval

[dduelin]

Degradation is gradual and if that’s the normal state then never changing it is perfectly just fine. It’s what the rider is used to.

 

[W0QNX]

Degradation is gradual and if that’s the normal state then never changing it is perfectly just fine. It’s what the rider is used to.

I guess I missed in the thread who said they never changed the oil.

What ST1300 did you ride ride with fork oil at 262,000 miles to know the ride is any different than one with 20,000 miles on the fork oil? Gee whiz that would mean someone else would have a different longer tested result than you but that may be perfectly just fine.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I change synth motor oil every 2k so.. maybe.

Why?

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

I shake my head in wonder as I read the repeated advice of posters who swear you need to change your fork oil at 15-20K. WØQNX's real life experience says he put 262,000 miles on his with no issues. He's put more miles on his ST than probably 10 people combined. I only had a BMW, but still, I put 107,000 miles on my F800GT and only changed the oil once...and then felt like I made a mistake afterwards. And I never changed the seals. I never pulled the forks off. And the bike felt great. (Well, as good as you can expect in the Seattle area's pothole filled roads.)

Not trying to gaslight or anything remotely like that, but you’re using Raymond and your one bike as the data points?

The one thing for sure is it’s somewhere between once and never, and having changed this bikes fork oil three times, that oil gets real nasty and crud comes out when cleaned.

 

[dduelin]

I guess I missed in the thread who said they never changed the oil.

What ST1300 did you ride ride with fork oil at 262,000 miles to know the ride is any different than one with 20,000 miles on the fork oil? Gee whiz that would mean someone else would have a different longer tested result than you but that may be perfectly just fine.

Respectfully Raymond, I maintain my bikes the way I like too and I change the fork oil in them because I want to and not because I have to because the suspension is deteriorated to the point where it is plainly noticeable. Because deterioration of fork damping is gradual it's easy to miss changes in suspension operation and still consider the ride as normal at 262,000 miles as it was at 20,000 miles. Changing the oil, besides restoring or changing the qualities of it, allows flushing out the fork leg and depending on fork type, the cartridge and damping rod orifices, thus removing the build up of gunk in small passages and orifices that affects how well the fork does it's job.

But you are correct, without subjective testing there is no way to know how compression and rebound is affected at 262,000 miles vs 20,000 miles. I'm sure yours was just fine or you wouldn't be commenting on how long is not long enough to notice deterioration. Suspension tuning shops do have equipment that can measure forks and shocks and produce graphs of objective data on how changes in oil quality affect damping. Pick one and see if you get a gold star or just an honorable mention for the most miles on fork oil.

 

[ToddC]

Not trying to gaslight or anything remotely like that, but you’re using Raymond and your one bike as the data points?

The one thing for sure is it’s somewhere between once and never, and having changed this bikes fork oil three times, that oil gets real nasty and crud comes out when cleaned.

And from someone who rode their bike until the rear wheel bearing "grenaded" and left them on the side of the road. Could have been avoided if inspected on regular intervals.

 

[newtonhubcap]

General rule we had back in the early 80's when our shop staff traveled a lot and we noticed our front tire scalloped (typically 5-10,000 miles) was a obvious indication the front tire was not staying in contact with the road surface. That visual wear indication was our reference to replace the fork oil. Over 90% of riders are riding on fork oil that is doing little to nothing for them, basically riding on the springs which produces nothing but a sloppy handling bike. Just because you don't see oil leaking out of the fork seals means all is good - beg to differ!

 

[newtonhubcap]

Attached photo of scalloped tire. Produces an unnerving feeling braking into a corner. Not saying I am right because everyone has an opinion how they maintain their rides. I do mine so that my butt never meets the asphalt.

 

[Daboo]

And from someone who rode their bike until the rear wheel bearing "grenaded" and left them on the side of the road. Could have been avoided if inspected on regular intervals.

First, you have no idea what was inspected, and what wan't. Nor how to inspect that bearing.

Second, what happens on one end of the bike, does not have any application to the other end of the bike.

 

[Sadlsor]

Second, what happens on one end of the bike, does not have any application to the other end of the bike.

? ? ?
Not so sure that blanket statement would garner unanimous support among riders.

 

[Daboo]

? ? ?
Not so sure that blanket statement would garner unanimous support among riders.

His analogy was pretty bogus.

• He has no idea what I did or did not inspect.
• He has no idea what the inspection interval is...or if there is one.
• He has no idea how to inspect the rear wheel bearing.
• He has no idea if it is possible to inspect the rear wheel bearing.

But without knowing any of those answers, he made a connection to a failure happening on the other end of the bike to fork oil. Maybe I should've put fork oil into my rear bearing?

 

[RaYzerman]

OK I'll chime in as I've rebuilt a lot of forks....... some think the oil smells nasty because of its condition, but I'd recommend smelling new fork oil. Some smell just like that. As for when to change, there is no specified interval, but let's say at 20-30k, what has happened (conventional forks), is the lower bushing has been riding up and down inside the lower fork tube, creating aluminum fines that contaminate the oil. This can be significant, and if you have cartridge forks, it can block the damping valves. On damping rod forks, not so much, but with either, you'll find some aluminum sludge at the bottom of the forks.
The contamination on ST's I'd think aren't as bad as some bikes. The OEM bushings have a texture to the teflon coating and it seems to wear longer than those that are plain teflon coated. I've never seen texturing of the teflon on any other than an ST. Certainly not other Hondas.
Upside down forks don't have this problem as the bushings typically are part of the upper fork tube, and there is no wear against any aluminum surfaces, thus won't be contaminated much at all over bigger mileages.
Bottom line, choose a reasonable interval, don't worry about having to change it annually or at low mileages........

 

[Larry Fine]

I had read that the oil in the brake-side fork tube on Nighthawk 750s was much dirtier and stinkier, and mine certainly was when I rebuilt them on my '96. The conclusion was it was due to brake-generated heat.

 

[W0QNX]

I hope nobody is using me as a data point. I know that my data points are all way way off all of Dave's Honda stealership charts.

I'm not sure how I was even able to ride my old chart breakin bike today over 300 miles. The fork oil or bushings haven't been changed since Feb. of 2022. That's over 80,000 miles, totally off the charts.

I guess I'm one of the few that bought the ST1300 to ride the $$$$ out of and put it up wet.

 

[rdmnt2002]

I hope nobody is using me as a data point. I know that my data points are all way way off all of Dave's Honda stealership charts.

I'm not sure how I was even able to ride my old chart breakin bike today over 300 miles. The fork oil or bushings haven't been changed since Feb. of 2022. That's over 80,000 miles, totally off the charts.

I guess I'm one of the few that bought the ST1300 to ride the $$$$ out of and put it up wet.

Keep it up Raymond!! Your posts are some of my favorites!!!!

Your experience with regard to owning and operating one of our bikes to over 400000 miles is extremely valuable to this community. Please keep the posts coming. You may get criticism by some on occasion, but please don’t ever stop posting about your adventure with your bike. With all the ECM issues, and other common ST issues, I had lost some faith in the old girl……..but your story has countered that for me.

Thanks again and I look forward to reading the 450000 mile post. You better damn well get her to 500000!!

Ray

 

[billo]

Why?

Shifts smooth and effortless. After 1500 miles I can feel the difference. Every bike I've owned, every oil I've used. Yes, I'm that an picky.

 

[red one]

Once in 86K miles. Last change at 38K now at 86K.

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

Getting it going now. Am I the only one that orders fork seals only to open the drawer and see a new set of fork seals already there...

20k ish on Honda fork oil, the one bottom bolt came out and drained into the pan, it was easy to clean the tubes. The other bolt was stubborn and required multiple flushings to clean it out.


Currently drying and awaiting refill. Going with the expensive stuff, let's see if I can feel a difference. Also having a stainless steel preload adjuster hose made up, not sure why, but SS has to be better than soft rubber(?)

 

[W0QNX]

I'd just put that 20k oil right back in. Barely broke down.

 

[dduelin]

Getting it going now. Am I the only one that orders fork seals only to open the drawer and see a new set of fork seals already there...

20k ish on Honda fork oil, the one bottom bolt came out and drained into the pan, it was easy to clean the tubes. The other bolt was stubborn and required multiple flushings to clean it out.


Currently drying and awaiting refill. Going with the expensive stuff, let's see if I can feel a difference. Also having a stainless steel preload adjuster hose made up, not sure why, but SS has to be better than soft rubber(?)

Well the SS hose will likely prevent gradual loss of available preload due to rubber hose expansion over time and constant pressure.