Front brake binding after fluid change... HELP!

Joined
Jun 2, 2011
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Tucson
Trying to get ready to go on a ST (2002, ABS) vacation with wifey and work has not been real cooperative. So I dropped the ST off at one of our local bike shops for a front/rear brake fluid change and MC rebuilds earlier this week. They have been good in the past on minor stuff when I get too busy, and they give me great tire/changing prices.

Went to pick the bike up a couple days ago, and the brakes were... weird. The rear pedal was about an inch too high, the front lever had very little play, and front brakes were sticky. Solved the rear pedal problem at the shop by putting the circlip in the correct groove: they had it set at the internal casting mark... and it also seemed to help the brake lever. Got it home and parked it until today. The bike was sitting out in the sun, and when I went to move it into the garage... the front brakes were activated; with zero free play in the lever :mad::mad:

Dang it. The ONLY reason I had them do the work is because I was pressed for time. We are now 2 days late departing, and now I'm dicking with this the night before the 3rd delayed departure.

I was able to motor the bike into the garage, and parked it in front of the fan. Tried to loosen both front calipers, and both were locked onto the disks. The rear wheel turned freely. Went inside for 30 minutes or so, went back outside and ... the brakes were fine. ***? So after a bit of thinking, maybe they used old brake fluid that sucked up some water? And when it warms up it expands and activates the brakes? So I called the shop just before they closed, and the mechanic swore he used two containers of new fluid. He also said he only used the lever and foot pedal to pump fluid through the system; he did not use a pressure pump or a sucker.

At this point, changing the fluid and re-bleeding is about all I have time for. I pulled the front master apart, and compared the new parts (from Honda, that I provided in sealed bags) with what they pulled out; they were identical, right down to the direction the rubber cups face. So it's not hardware in the MC.

Any other quick thoughts? :confused::confused: I got tonight to fix this; otherwise I'll have to change some luggage around and take the Wing, but I'd much rather take the ST :D.
 
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Benton, AR
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1991 ST1100
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7908
Check and make sure the front calipers are sliding on the pins. The last time I put new front pads on the calipers were stuck on the pins and would not release far enough with the thicker new pads. They gunk up and stick.
 

ChucksKLRST

Team Colorado
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Double check and make sure the rubber cup is properly installed in the master Cylinder. If not it will cause problems. DAHIK Also make sure the relief orifice is not clogged up or block and is releasing the fluid pressure.
 
OP
OP
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Jun 2, 2011
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Tucson
Thanks for the quick response guys. I just got back from town picking up a quart of DOT4...

Both good ideas. Although I did not change pads, this is an easy thing to check. Occams Razor and all that...

I assume you mean the 2 cups? There is one on each end of the aluminum piece, and they were correct in orientation, size, and placement.

Just thought of something; just b4 I picked up the bike in the shop, the mechanic was tightening up the MC cap screws, and he had a wire brush strand diameter tool. Asked him what he used it for, and he said he had to relieve the pressure in the master cylinder by inserting it into the orifice. So maybe this problem was not tied to the rear MC circlip problem, but just bringing the bike out of the sun and into the shop as well. Which still sounds like moisture (or air?) heating up and expanding. But I ruled out air, as the lever feel is solid; there is no sponginess that I would usually associate with air.

I still have no idea; but guess I'll try out my new bleeder...
 
OP
OP
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Well, solved it!
Pulled the MC apart again, and all was fine.
Figured may as well check the calipers, so I yanked them, cleaned them, put em back together, and THEN put the MC back together. And looked at the engagement pin between the lever and the MC plunger.
Funny; when I took it apart it was shiny. I just figured the mechanic guy cleaned it up; which was my first clue, because those gomers don't clean anything. Second clue was the old grease on the pin INSIDE the MC boot...

Turns out, if you insert the pin F'ING BACKWARDS it is about 1/4" longer, because the ball end (intended for the lever) is too big for the recess in the plunger. I.e., if installed correctly, the plunger end of the pin sits in a pocket. The result of being in backwards is that the plunger is ALWAYS being engaged, which does not allow the rubber seals to clear the relief hole. Simple. Only took me 4 hours of caliper removal, cleaning, and then bleeding the entire brake system to figure out...:eek::

That knuckle head shop owes me $200... ;) I ought to charge them overtime for having to work until midnight fixing their screw-up...

Right, I'm sure that's going to happen...

This should be a sticky somewhere...

IMG_8760.jpg
 

ChucksKLRST

Team Colorado
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086
Well, solved it!
Pulled the MC apart again, and all was fine.


That knuckle head shop owes me $200... ;) I ought to charge them overtime for having to work until midnight fixing their screw-up...

Right, I'm sure that's going to happen...

This should be a sticky somewhere...

IMG_8760.jpg
Now that you fixed it, how are you going to prove the shop did it wrong so you can get your money back? Good Luck with that.
 
Joined
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soCal
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687
The sticky should be, Don't take you ST to a Honda dealer, if you really want it fixed.
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

At the risk of offending anyone in the m/c business, in my neck of the woods you're better off throwing your bike off a cliff for the insurance money than giving any dealer in the area an opportunity to work on it.
 

Tom Mac 04a

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+2 .... Don'r care for dealers and, I really don't think most of it is the 20yr old mech getting min wage! :)

I find a lot of it has to do with the bikes they work on alot and those they don't!!! In my area, GW's are a dime a doz and the mechs see them all the time. But when I first bought the bike AND the dealer didn't even know how to open the seat, you start to wonder. ( sales and mech standin over it looking ).

Sometimes your better off doing things yourself , it allows you to learn the bike and save money.... an owners manual and this site don't hurt either


edit ... i ment a service manual
 
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ChucksKLRST

Team Colorado
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+2 .... Don'r care for dealers and, I really don't think most of it is the 20yr old mech getting min wage! :)



Sometimes your better off doing things yourself , it allows you to learn the bike and save money.... an owners manual and this site don't hurt either
A Service Manual would also help a lot.
 
Joined
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...in my neck of the woods you're better off throwing your bike off a cliff for the insurance money than giving any dealer in the area an opportunity to work on it.
:crackup: Well at least you have cliffs where you are.

Unfortunately dealer service is often crap here too. Their errors can potentially be life threatening. 1st hand knowledge speaking. All too often the poorly supervised apprentice does the work.
 

ST1100Y

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Turns out, if you insert the pin F'ING BACKWARDS it is about 1/4" longer, because the ball end (intended for the lever) is too big for the recess in the plunger.
Totally weird, this (new trainee?) failure would have been so obvious right away if the mech would care to make a test/ride thus final inspection with a client's mount like its mandatory over here... hell, it would even have been noticeable if one pulls the lever a couple of times to operates the brake while the bike is still stationary on the work lift...
 
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