front left brake and rear brake drags

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oslo, norway
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After driving today I noticed my rear disc, and my left front disc are hot! I can touch them - barely! The front right disc is ambient temperature.

What can be the cause of this? Pads look normal.

My local garage claimed this was "normal" - I find that hard to believe.

Any pointers, or ideas where to start troubleshooting?
 
Joined
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You didn't mention the bike, but I'll assume ST1300.

EDIT: okay, checked your profile and I see listed: ST1300 2005

If yes, the SMC is probably bad. Do a search here - there's plenty of articles about it in the Tech section.

BTW, welcome aboard !

For example

 
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ahope
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Yes, it's an ST1300 (thats what this forum is for, right?).
Ok, I will read all night about brakes and SMC rebuilds. Not looking forward to it, but if I must, I must.

And thanks! This forum has already given me a ton of help and information!
 

Sadlsor

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Generally speaking, it's preferable to replace it, rather than try a rebuild.
The rebuild is shown to have a much lower success rate, for several reasons.
 
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Lost in the sticks
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My 1300 did the same thing - the front rotors ran cool but the rear rotor was scalding hot to the touch...... In my situation the secondary master cylinder replacement fixed it.



SMC2.jpgSMC3.jpgSMC4.jpgSMC6.jpg
 

mjc506

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Hang on... I'm no expert, but hot front left and rear rotors implies the SMC is working fine, but the front left caliper is dragging?

That could be corrosion, seals, pad pin... but that caliper dragging will activate the SMC, which will activate the rear caliper.

Unlikely to be a hydraulic cause - a front master cylinder/lines/etc issue would cause both front brakes to drag, same with the rear master cylinder.

I'd pull that front left caliper, remove the pads, and check for obvious dirt/corrosion. The pistons can be cleaned in situ (although awkward with all the brake lines connected), and once clean you should be able to push the pistons back into the caliper with your thumbs (careful not to let the master cylinder reservoir overflow). If you can't, that indicates that piston is stuck. Could be corrosion, perhaps a damaged/displaced seal. A seal kit should sort that, although the system will need bleeding after.

If the pistons are all fine, then the pads could be dragging due to damaged/dirty caliper pin, or perhaps getting hung up on the spring pads inside the caliper. Taking a good look should find the problem.
 
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Hang on... I'm no expert, but hot front left and rear rotors implies the SMC is working fine, but the front left caliper is dragging?
Like this, maybe? Be sure to read Larry's post just after this one:

 

mjc506

Matt
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Not sure, that thread doesn't mention any front end issues.

But just logically:
Rear rotor hot means rear brake dragging.
That means either:
- riding the brakes :)
- rear caliper issues (seized, dirty, etc)
- SMC actuating or stuck

Left front rotor hot/caliper dragging can only mean an issue with that caliper - there's nothing else that affects that caliper without also affecting the right front. And a dragging left front will actuate the SMC, hence the hot rear rotor.
 

Igofar

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You may want to read a bit more about the brake system.
Don't get hung up on logical thinking.
"can only mean an issue with that caliper" etc. , you may want to re-think this statement.
When a secondary master cylinder starts malfunctioning, it can/does affect how the left front caliper and brake assembly works ;)
But I'm just going out on a limb here, since I've only replaced a few hundred of them in the last few years :rolleyes:
 

mjc506

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I bow to your experience of course :) but (aside from mechanical issues with the bracket) how can the smc affect the front left caliper without also affecting the front right? I must be missing something as I can't see the hydraulic path.
 
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ahope
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Lots of good thinking here.

I did some more checking today. When trying to spin the front wheel, the left disc drags so hard it will barely rotate max a quarter turn before stopping. Same on rear.
BTW, it's a non-ABS bike.

If the left front drags, it will activate the SMC and cause rear to drag. But when stationary, there is nothing activating the SMC, yet it still drags on the rear.

While I don't mind getting a new SMC if necessary, there seems to be a number of things that can be causing this, so I want to research as much as I can before I replace the SMC.

This brake system seems to be more than complex - reading all the articles and postings here can be quite scary. I don't want to spend all summer debugging the brakes, I should be out touring now.
 

mjc506

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Have you tried turning the front wheel backwards slightly? If its dragging that hard, it may prevent the SMC from 'releasing'.

Another check is pulling backwards on the SMC - this should allow the rear to turn freely. Worth checking if the front then spins freely too, I don't think it will help but everyone else does :)

The SMC pushrod should move ~15 - 20mm in relation to the bracket, and should return when the front brake isn't applied/when you stop pushing it forward. If turning the front wheel backwards doesn't move the SMC but pulling it back does, you could have problems with the lower pivot (it's a needle bearing) or SMC internals (there's a spring inside which may have broken, or corrosion may have taken hold). If the SMC doesn't move when you push/pull it, suspect significant internal corrosion :(

I'd also be tempted to remove the front caliper, give it a visual check behind the pads/clean, and try pushing the pistons back. A shortcut for now would be grabbing the rotor with your fingers, and press the caliper with your thumbs towards the rotor - this will push the rotor against the pad against the pistons, which should loosen the front caliper's grip on the rotor (it doesn't need to move much) and hopefully that will mean you can spin the front wheel. If you manage to get both wheels turning freely, it should be fairly easy to narrow down the cause - squeezing the front brake lever (at a standstill) will only affect the outer two pistons on each front caliper. Squeezing the SMC should only affect the outer two pistons in the rear caliper. The rear brake pedal will affect the centre pistons on the front calipers (if pressed hard enough), the centre piston on the rear, but also push fluid through the SMC to activate the outer rear pistons.
 
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ahope
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The SMC pushrod should move ~15 - 20mm in relation to the bracket, and should return when the front brake isn't applied/when you stop pushing it forward. If turning the front wheel backwards doesn't move the SMC but pulling it back does, you could have problems with the lower pivot (it's a needle bearing) or SMC internals (there's a spring inside which may have broken, or corrosion may have taken hold). If the SMC doesn't move when you push/pull it, suspect significant internal corrosion :(
I tried moving the SMC. It goes maybe 3-4 mm back and forth. It will return when released, but I cannot depress it more than 3-4 mm.
It only moved 1-2 mm in the beginning, but after a bit of push and shove it now moves a little more.
Should it be hard to compress?
 

mjc506

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Sorry, yes, I was thinking about bleeding the system! 3-4mm matches mine, and it's quite hard to press to be able to see movement. Good news that it returns on its own when released :)
 
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search smc protective boot simple fix which prevents water grit from getting into the SMC and creating problems. cost about $5. easy to install.
 
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