Gel Battery?

[leonides]

Any experience with GEL batteries.?
I had to replace mine but I have never used a Gel one.
Opinions will be appreciated

 

[Erdoc48]

I just bought an AGM from Batteries Plus for the 94 (emergency buy) and an Antigravity Batt for the 2000 (because I have an 8 year old LiFePO4 battery in there now). I found this about gel batteries:

Battery 101: The Pros And Cons of a Gel Mat Battery - Northeast Battery

If you’ve ever shopped for a battery you know 1) there’s a ton, and 2) they all have their advantages and disadvantages. Gel mat batteries are no different. Understanding the pros and cons of a gel battery is the best first step in determining if this type of battery is right for you. What Is A […]

northeastbattery.com

Not sure there’s any huge advantage to a gel battery over AGM for a motorcycle application.

Here’s the differences between gel and AGM:

The Key Differences Between AGM and GEL Batteries

Are you wondering which battery you should get? AGM or GEL? In this article, we will go through the differences and similarities between these two batteries.

mechanicbase.com

 

[leonides]

I just bought an AGM from Batteries Plus for the 94 (emergency buy) and an Antigravity Batt for the 2000 (because I have an 8 year old LiFePO4 battery in there now). I found this about gel batteries:

Battery 101: The Pros And Cons of a Gel Mat Battery - Northeast Battery

If you’ve ever shopped for a battery you know 1) there’s a ton, and 2) they all have their advantages and disadvantages. Gel mat batteries are no different. Understanding the pros and cons of a gel battery is the best first step in determining if this type of battery is right for you. What Is A […]

northeastbattery.com

Not sure there’s any huge advantage to a gel battery over AGM for a motorcycle application.

Here’s the differences between gel and AGM:

The Key Differences Between AGM and GEL Batteries

Are you wondering which battery you should get? AGM or GEL? In this article, we will go through the differences and similarities between these two batteries.

mechanicbase.com

thanks a lot. I'll keep on the AGM.

 

[oilspot]

I tried chatting with a mfr over the weekend about this very question. They offered both versions of the battery for the ST (plan AGM and Gel) The gel battery was fancier looking but technical specs were the same for both batteries. The CS I chatted with could not tell me if one or the other was better and said I should replace like for like (not much help). When I asked if the gel was superior (it was $4 more), the CS said to ask Honda. Pretty pitiful, and perhaps it was just because the CS did not have the answer... So I bought an std AGM.

I was so very tempted to get a LiFePO4 battery, but thought I would wait just a tad longer to decide. We'll see how long my $39 AGM battery lasts. One positive about the lithium is that it seems to have deflated the AGM prices...

 

[SMSW]

Gel batteries are used in alarm systems and emergency light packs and exit signs and not so often in cars or bikes. I should probably say they were, I've been retired for more than 5 years now and they might be using lithium cells. There are usually good reasons why an item or specific type is widely used in one application and not another. The links above explain why, and as they said, gel batteries are better for long, slow discharge rather than the big burst of current required to start an ICE. If you crank it for more than a few seconds (when the engine is hard to start) you risk the bubbles in the gel electrolyte as mentioned.

 

[core-aggie]

"I wouldn't" ... but that's just my opinion.

Part hype, as they say.

Even in boat forums, this question is popular.
For most, AGM is a bit more popular.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

the CS said to ask Honda.

The customer support of the manufacturer of both batteries that they list for your application is stating to ask another completely unrelated entity to tell you which of the two batteries that they manufacture is a better choice for that application.
That has to be one of the most stupid responses they could possibly offer, and one that would make me not want to deal with that company because of the attitude that it projects. I would have a lot more respect for them if they just stated I don't know, or I don't know but I can try to find out from our technical department if you like.

It would be nice, and more helpful to the customer, if manufacturers more closely monitored what their customer support people are telling their customers. That is not likely to change however, because from their perspective customer support is a cost centre, not a profit centre.

 

[oilspot]

The customer support of the manufacturer of both batteries that they list for your application is stating to ask another completely unrelated entity to tell you which of the two batteries that they manufacture is a better choice for that application.
That has to be one of the most stupid responses they could possibly offer, and one that would make me not want to deal with that company because of the attitude that it projects. I would have a lot more respect for them if they just stated I don't know, or I don't know but I can try to find out from our technical department if you like.

It would be nice, and more helpful to the customer, if manufacturers more closely monitored what their customer support people are telling their customers. That is not likely to change however, because from their perspective customer support is a cost centre, not a profit centre.

Indeed, I felt the same way.

 

[dduelin]

There is no upside to using a gel battery over AGM in powersports.

 

[ST Gui]

I've seen several sites say gel batteries need a dedicated charger to be charged properly. Given that I'd expect a gel battery to fail much sooner than an AGM. I've also read that gel batteries typically don't have the capacity of similarly sized AGM batteries.

 

[DannoXYZ]

At this point in time, why not ditch ancient lead-acid and go with lithium (LiFePO4)?

Had one on my VFR for 10-years and it's still going strong. Then I'm pretty meticulous about monitoring battery-voltage and got 10-yrs from Yuasa lead-acid battery by keeping constantly at 90-95% charged.

Voltage after coming out of 4-months winter storage (no tender needed).

Voltage during cranking, 2-3 turns and >VRRROOOMMM<

One benefit of lithium is BMS circuit provides overcharge and over-discharge protection. If you leave lights on, battery gets disconnected at certain voltage-level to prevent further discharge and damage.

 

[rwthomas1]

The issue with lithium and the BMS is that the BMS is needed at all. The BMS is there to protect the lithium battery from a charging system that was never designed for it. I've been trying to figure out how to retrofit my sailboat with lithium and I have given up. The cheaper lithium batteries claim to be compatible with all charging systems, but apparently they aren't as I've found stories of incompatibilities and failures. So then I tried the more expensive providers and the answer was yes, no or maybe. Seriously. I couldn't find particularly clear answers to compatibility questions. Lithium boat batteries are thousands of dollars so its not like you want to make a mistake. That ancient lead/acid is looking better and better. The point here? Well, "BMS" is a term that is tossed around and has no standard applied. Some BMS are very comprehensive, they condition the incoming charge current in addition to over/under charging protection. Cheaper batteries the BMS does less. Its tough to figure out exactly what you are getting. If you are going down the road then go with an established brand, they are more likely to have it figured out. Granted a bike battery is relatively inexpensive....

 

[DannoXYZ]

True, fully-charged LiFePO4 batt is 14.4v vs lead-acid 13.8v. So they'll always be undercharged by a little bit. Which is fine since that'll extend their lifetime.

Not sure what issues you've had with them on sailboat, I haven't had any issues with my Dakota 100ah battery (equivalent to 200ah lead-acid).

Many battery "issues" aren't even due to batteries themselves. Often problem with wiring or charging-system. You'll want to test and measure entire system to come up with numbers to pinpoint if or where exact problems are.

 

[ASPC]

The NOCO Lithium NLP14 is only a 4 Amp battery. That is 48 Watts total capacity, the battery in my iPad is 38 watts. For comparison, the useable power in a SLA/AGM battery in group 14 has 108 watts of useable power and they cost $40 bucks

 

[Larry Fine]

<----- AGM user.

 

[rwthomas1]

True, fully-charged LiFePO4 batt is 14.4v vs lead-acid 13.8v. So they'll always be undercharged by a little bit. Which is fine since that'll extend their lifetime.

Not sure what issues you've had with them on sailboat, I haven't had any issues with my Dakota 100ah battery (equivalent to 200ah lead-acid).

Many battery "issues" aren't even due to batteries themselves. Often problem with wiring or charging-system. You'll want to test and measure entire system to come up with numbers to pinpoint if or where exact problems are.

None of the Lithium's I've looked at play well with the charging output of the two outboards. Outboards are the issue, if it was inboards, it would be much easier. The actual waveform of the alternator output is the issue. The manufacturers say they are OK, but a little deeper dive shows that lifespan will be negatively affected. The only way to fix the issue is use a lead/acid start battery, and then a charger from the lead/acid to the lithium. Like an echo charger on steroids. Victron makes them. Unfortunately this would require a lot of rewiring to divorce the engine electrical system from the house. If I just keep lead/acid I have no problems.

The issue isn't the lithium batteries, its the BMS or the fact that one is needed. In a few years all the powerplant manufacturers will offer charging systems that will have the lithium option baked in. The BMS is merely a kludge to make it all work now, and in some cases that BMS isn't all that sophisticated.

 

[ST1100Y]

Any experience with GEL batteries.?

Only the issues caused in my GF's NT700VA...
Bought used, battery was down when picking it up, gave it a full charge, the V-twin still cranked kinda lame...
Obtained a new, well advertised GEL type, on which suddenly 4~5 pushes required to change from a silent click to actual cranking, latter still kinda lame...
Threw a NOCO NLP14 LiFePO4 at it and WOW! Fires instantly on only two, very happy, clear sounding starter rotations... always...

Works even better on the SC26 plant of my ST1100 BTW...

 

[Gerhard]

The BMS is there to protect the lithium battery from a charging system that was never designed for it.

The Antigravity batteries have a built in BMS, also built in boost function. That said my previous lithium battery from Shorai lasted 8 riding seasons and performed great without a BMS.

 

[Jethro]

Sak batteries from Yes,Saskatchewan have any battery from watch bateries to 8D diesel or solar power.That’s all they do.Knowledgable,courteous.Free shipping in Canada.Excellent warranty.Get your questions answered & buy in the US if you want.

 

[ASPC]

Why not just use AGM?