!*@..Grrr*¡ Kneecaps!

[Slammer]

So I went swimming in the lake, total prat that I am, a long swim, seven Kilometers and a bit in total. Now I do this often and really enjoy it. But... normally I sort of warm up a few times before attempting a long swim.
Not this time, also I use long freediving fins for speed and endurance.
So in the lake I jump and paddle till I have had enough, getting out in Riederau. Hit the Biergarten and take a train back.
Next day I start to feel a twinge at the front in both knees, not to worry, went to work as normal. But by evening I was in pain, not fictional man pain but real pain which kept getting worse. It took a week before I could walk without ouch-ing and arrrgh-ing and Oooo-ing and boodyhell-ing. All the classics and some new ones and actually expanding on my extensive collection of old man noises.
So on Friday I picked up the STahl Schwein from the garage where it has been on holiday for the last two weeks and rode home. I managed 10 Km before having to stop and stretch my left leg and I have spent the weekend with a popcorn knee.
Starting to wonder if I have wrecked something in there.

 

[Upt' North]

Slammer, your knees are getting old, I should know, 61 is a good age.
I've been catching up gardening and checking the bike over post tour and every bit of this 61 year old aches.
But if after that long they're still hurting I reckon somethings going on inside.
Time for a physio visit perhaps?
Good luck fella.
Upt'North.

 

[Upt' North]

It was probably the, "and a bit". That did it .

 

[Peppermint]

Being of the same generation (heck, I'm all of three years older than you two), I'll echo what Ray said. If it were just a case of aches and pains from overexertion, a little rest and some Ibuprofen would have calmed things down by now. But persistent, worsening pain over the course of a week...and swelling? Get it checked out!

Mother Hen, over and out.

 

[Weaselinsuit]

I would third the physio. I am on the path to knee replacements but the physio has really helped in the interim and hopefully will push surgery off till I am older. Though at some point, quality of life right now becomes important as the amount of time to enjoy full mobility is diminishing as I age

 

[Uncle Phil]

Does it feel like somebody sticking a knife in your knee and twisting it?
Or is it just a continuous ache?
The 'knife' would indicate something torn (probable meniscus tear), the 'ache' would indicate inflammation which could be treated with cortisone shots.
Having been through the whole 'gamut' of knee stuff up to and including having both replaced (5 surgeries between the 2 knees), I feel your pain!
I had to have both of mine replaced before I was 60 years old due to damage from running and racquet ball (very similar to squash).
As I have said before - Old Arthur(itis) is a constant companion, just not a pleasant one.

 

[Slammer]

Does it feel like somebody sticking a knife in your knee and twisting it?
Or is it just a continuous ache?
The 'knife' would indicate something torn (probable meniscus tear), the 'ache' would indicate inflammation which could be treated with cortisone shots.
Having been through the whole 'gamut' of knee stuff up to and including having both replaced (5 surgeries between the 2 knees), I feel your pain!
I had to have both of mine replaced before I was 60 years old due to damage from running and racquet ball (very similar to squash).
As I have said before - Old Arthur(itis) is a constant companion, just not a pleasant one.

It´s rather a mix, there is a Euro sized area on the right front inside on the left knee that is like it has been hit by a Monkey wrench, other than that it´s a ache and it happens when I have my leg bent like you would have on a bike.

 

[Al st1100]

stand up and straighten thee leg out. Feel the back side for a lump . That's called a bakers cyst. Irritation, inflammation causes an excess of fluid in the knee and it get pushed out the back. If you have that you need to get that looked at. If it's not there then follow Peppermints suggestion. Remember your only as young as you heal. I was told I needed a knee replacement 2 years ago. I learned how to avoid what set it off and I'm still skating and reffing hockey.

 

[Igofar]

Your choice of Fins are what is causing your knees issues.
Free diving fins, regardless of material, are NOT for endurance nor speed.
I've got a little bit of experience with Fins. Everything from jumping out of choppers with Scuba Pro Jet(s), force fins, free diving fins, frog foot fins, full foot pocket, open heel pocket, straps, springs, you name it. I've lived in Fins for the past 45 plus years.
For endurance, you should try Force Fins (strange looking) but take all the STRESS off your knees and lower calves, and allow swimmers to swim in a current pool for 24 hours not stop etc.
You can also try some different Split Fins, not as much thrust as Force fins, but very low stress on your joints.
The only thing I don't like about split fins are you can't move quickly in bursts, like you can with the force fins, and you've got to keep them moving continuously if you want to keep moving forward.
Frog fins, Jet fins, and free diving fins, will allow you to use a FROG kick to move though the water in bursts. This is the best type of kick for Cave Diving, or Halibut Hunting when cruising inches over sand, and not wanting to stir anything up etc.
If your just swimming long distances, and not hurt your knees, I'd suggest you rent a set of force fins and try them.
They will allow you to maintain movement even in heavy current without hurting your knees etc.
Hope you heal soon.

 

[Larry Fine]

My knee pains are about 2" below the patella, and toward the outside.

 

[Slammer]

No, nothing there, however I do feel a "click" when I stretch, like you get when you crack you knuckles.
I have been threatened that I will need new knees in a bit, but as I am a heavy guy it´s not an option.
At the moment I am learning what sets off a bout of gout, Czech beer is a big no, no, as is Pork. So Bratwurst has become a rare treat.

 

[Slammer]

Your choice of Fins are what is causing your knees issues.
Free diving fins, regardless of material, are NOT for endurance nor speed.
I've got a little bit of experience with Fins. Everything from jumping out of choppers with Scuba Pro Jet(s), force fins, free diving fins, frog foot fins, full foot pocket, open heel pocket, straps, springs, you name it. I've lived in Fins for the past 45 plus years.
For endurance, you should try Force Fins (strange looking) but take all the STRESS off your knees and lower calves, and allow swimmers to swim in a current pool for 24 hours not stop etc.
You can also try some different Split Fins, not as much thrust as Force fins, but very low stress on your joints.
The only thing I don't like about split fins are you can't move quickly in bursts, like you can with the force fins, and you've got to keep them moving continuously if you want to keep moving forward.
Frog fins, Jet fins, and free diving fins, will allow you to use a FROG kick to move though the water in bursts. This is the best type of kick for Cave Diving, or Halibut Hunting when cruising inches over sand, and not wanting to stir anything up etc.
If your just swimming long distances, and not hurt your knees, I'd suggest you rent a set of force fins and try them.
They will allow you to maintain movement even in heavy current without hurting your knees etc.
Hope you heal soon.

Wow, I had to google force fins, I have been using the long fins for years, I swam the Malta-Comino and have swum half way round Malta, all with long fins. Before that along the Bodensee and in Denmark along the coast at Århus. These last two years I have swum the Ammersee from north to south on three laps and was set to do it again this year.
I have Mondial one´s from Beuchat with medium rigidity and swim rather fast for extended periods, in fact the SUP´s have to dig in to keep up.
That is until two weeks ago.... I am looking for force fins on amazon but can´t really find anything.

 

[Igofar]

Force Fin

Force Fins are specially made fins for scuba diving, swimming, snorkeling, and float tube fishing. Reduced muscle fatigue and cramping.

forcefin.com

Click on Military and read the Study.
I used the Pro model for Rescue stuff, Huge surf, and strong current.
I used the excellerating force fin for bottom hunting/spear fishing (close to sea floor) and for diving around deep channels with strong down currents.

 

[Uncle Phil]

It´s rather a mix, there is a Euro sized area on the right front inside on the left knee that is like it has been hit by a Monkey wrench, other than that it´s a ache and it happens when I have my leg bent like you would have on a bike.

My best guess would be inflamed tendons/ligaments which is extremely painful - anti-flames and cortisone can help.
The best 'over the counter' is probably Voltaren (diclofenac generically).
Also over here Icy Hot Balm is good as it contains salicylate (like aspirin) that absorbs into the joint.
Meniscus tears only hurt when the 'loose' flap gets caught in the hinge as you bend the knee - which can make 'yellow water' run down your leg!
You might also try icing it (20-30 minutes at a time) to see if that gives you any relief.
If ice packs help, you can make some 1/3 isopropyl alcohol, 2/3 water in Ziploc bags - it will get mushy but not freeze hard.

 

[Slammer]

My best guess would be inflamed tendons/ligaments which is extremely painful - anti-flames and cortisone can help.
The best 'over the counter' is probably Voltaren (diclofenac generically).
Also over here Icy Hot Balm is good as it contains salicylate (like aspirin) that absorbs into the joint.
Meniscus tears only hurt when the 'loose' flap gets caught in the hinge as you bend the knee - which can make 'yellow water' run down your leg!
You might also try icing it (20-30 minutes at a time) to see if that gives you any relief.
If ice packs help, you can make some 1/3 isopropyl alcohol, 2/3 water in Ziploc bags - it will get mushy but not freeze hard.

Actually one of the things I learned on Malta when the temps climbed into the 50° and beyond was to freeze a hot water bottle and sleep with that between my legs, and now I have been using it when the swelling got too much.

 

[Sheriff41]

Check out "fluid on the knee". There are various techniques for reducing it but a doctor can drain the fluid if it's more serious.

 

[Weaselinsuit]

It's actually kind of cool watching them drain it. A little local, then needle goes in and pull back the plunger, voila, horse needle full of yellow fluid.

 

[Slammer]

It's actually kind of cool watching them drain it. A little local, then needle goes in and pull back the plunger, voila, horse needle full of yellow fluid.

No, absolutly not cool, not one little chill. Last gout attack two years ago and the doc drained almost two pints using a big needle, a very, very big needle. The kind you see at the vet when elephants are involved.

 

[Slammer]

Force Fin

Force Fins are specially made fins for scuba diving, swimming, snorkeling, and float tube fishing. Reduced muscle fatigue and cramping.

forcefin.com

Click on Military and read the Study.
I used the Pro model for Rescue stuff, Huge surf, and strong current.
I used the excellerating force fin for bottom hunting/spear fishing (close to sea floor) and for diving around deep channels with strong down currents.

Been checking them out, look like something to keep in mind, but at the moment they are simply too expensive, perhaps if I were living on the coast, but here the lakes are more like puddles in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Weaselinsuit]

No, absolutly not cool, not one little chill. Last gout attack two years ago and the doc drained almost two pints using a big needle, a very, very big needle. The kind you see at the vet when elephants are involved.

I'll concede to a weird fascination with how the body works and what an elegant piece of engineering it is. The doc who has drained mine is really good; no pain and gets it done in minutes and the relief I feel is tangible so I look forward to getting it done when required.