Headlight bulbs other than Honda

[tpasco1995]

1. I'm guessing you mean quality control issues w/ the LED and matching a given LED lamp w/ various headlight reflectors?
2. Guaranteed. Heck, your eyeglass frames went bye bye the day before you broke the ones you love. Your refrigerator's circulating fan or temp control (a pc board) went obsolete the week before your frige stopped working....etc.
3. True, but my tired old eyes seem to see better with Cindy's (Evitek) LED's.

I confess to being a fan of Evitek's leds. I've bought at least half a dozen pairs from them. You can email Cindy directly: Cindy Zhou - cindy@evitekhid.com Bottom line for me is I think I can see better with these LEDs than halogen. YEMV. (your eyes might vary)

I just meant generally in relation to "why would people go back to incandescent lamps".

The Evitek ones are highly reviewed for the ST1300 and they're probably great for it. I'm pinning this for when I need headlight bulbs in the future because that's a route I'll gladly explore.

At the same time, how many people tried another brand first, maybe two, and had worse experiences than the predictable nature of an incandescent/halogen bulb? They're going to stay with what they know works, driven by experience of what didn't.

It's not a condemnation of Cindy's LEDs or your opinion (again, the fact that you're speaking highly of them definitely suggests they work great with the ST1300 reflector design). It's just the realization that for countless people, they're never going to bother again.

 

[spiderman302]

lenses were designed for halogens

This was true of the old designs of led bulbs, but the newer ones that emulated the geometry of the filament made vast improvements.
I have a very large box of bulbs that do not work and those that do. I did the homework.
The proof is in the beam pattern results.
I am using these in H4, H13, 9005, 9006 on all my vehicles and friends with awesome results.

 

[Obo]

We almost need a sticky of "approved/recommended" LED bulbs that includes the current newest model as well as earlier models (for those who either can't find the newest model or want a slightly less expensive option.)

I see too many folks say "I bought this kind and it works great" and then others buy the same thing, when the design of the bulb isn't anything like Spidey has said works best. His very large box of bulbs that didn't work speak to that.

The goal here should be to move everyone who wants to be moved, to a brighter bulb that works properly in our headlights, and throws the light properly where it needs to go vs just puking it out all over the place in an improper manner.

The fact we get these ongoing new threads about "what LED bulb to buy" is proof that the increasing various threads on this topic are either confusing folks, overwhelming them, or misleading them.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

9003 and H4 are the same thing.

I belive, but won't swear to it, that they are now for all intents and purposes the same, but they were not initially even though the differences were minor.

Essentially, 9003 is Sylvania's chosen internal code for an H4 bulb.

As I recall H4 is the European designation. It was approved and in use in Europe for quite a while before a similar bulb was made available in North America. It did not meet the US lighting regulations so it had to be adapted to the US regulations to get approval. This altered design was assigned the designation 9003 in the US.

Because Honda didn't install 9003-spec bulbs from factory, 9003-spec bulbs are not legal.

Other way around. Honda didn't install them because they were not legal in the US in the configuration in which they were going to be used on the ST1300. Honda equipped ST1300's with H4 bulbs in most markets in the world other than North America, and before they started selling the ST1300 in North America. It would be logistically and financially advantageous to them to use the same headlamp housing and bulbs in North America as they do in most other markets. If the regulations allowed it, most certainly they would have. They did not do so here because the North American lighting regulations do not allow bulbs which exceed 45 Watts to be used in a headlamp housing of the configuration found on the ST1300.

This is not unique to the ST1300. The same type of bulb that limits maximum Wattage to 45 that is found on North American ST1300's is also found on other motorcycles sold in North America, including from other manufacturers. What I don't know is why this type of headlamp design results in a maximum allowable Wattage of 45. I did look at the regulations once and gave up before I found what the reason is.

 

[tpasco1995]

I belive, but won't swear to it, that they are now for all intents and purposes the same, but they were not initially even though the differences were minor.

As I recall H4 is the European designation. It was approved and in use in Europe for quite a while before a similar bulb was made available in North America. It did not meet the US lighting regulations so it had to be adapted to the US regulations to get approval. This altered design was assigned the designation 9003 in the US.

Other way around. Honda didn't install them because they were not legal in the US in the configuration in which they were going to be used on the ST1300. Honda equipped ST1300's with H4 bulbs in most markets in the world other than North America, and before they started selling the ST1300 in North America. It would be logistically and financially advantageous to them to use the same headlamp housing and bulbs in North America as they do in most other markets. If the regulations allowed it, most certainly they would have. They did not do so here because the North American lighting regulations do not allow bulbs which exceed 45 Watts to be used in a headlamp housing of the configuration found on the ST1300.

This is not unique to the ST1300. The same type of bulb that limits maximum Wattage to 45 that is found on North American ST1300's is also found on other motorcycles sold in North America, including from other manufacturers. What I don't know is why this type of headlamp design results in a maximum allowable Wattage of 45. I did look at the regulations once and gave up before I found what the reason is.

H4 is the European designation for the bulb standard. 9003 is a trade designation and not a regulatory one. Bulbs distributed in the H4/9003 form factor in the US have to adhere to the regulated-spec of HB2. It is a tighter tolerance than EU-spec H4. Every HB2 is a H4/9003 bulb. Not every H4/9003 is an HB2.

We're on the same page on why the American-spec ST doesn't have H4/9003/HB2 bulbs. The configuration designed did not permit an H4 because of maximum wattage in a DOT-spec headlight housing of that volume. So Honda commissioned a custom 45W bulb rather than the 55W or 65W common from H4 bulbs, and that was that. The bike was not designed with US DOT regulations in mind for the headlight housing to accommodate the H4-spec bulb. If it had been, they could have opted for an HS5 for essentially the same performance and within the regulation. But as to why it's not legal to install a 903/H4/HB2 now, even though lower-wattage options exist, it's because it's not the bulb spec the bike was shipped with.

Basically, the US was a spillover market for the bike and it was haphazardly adapted after the fact to sell here. We only need to look at the NT1100 to realize Honda doesn't see the US as a market craving sport-tourers in enough volume to jump through the regulatory hoops.

 

[tpasco1995]

We almost need a sticky of "approved/recommended" LED bulbs that includes the current newest model as well as earlier models (for those who either can't find the newest model or want a slightly less expensive option.)

I see too many folks say "I bought this kind and it works great" and then others buy the same thing, when the design of the bulb isn't anything like Spidey has said works best. His very large box of bulbs that didn't work speak to that.

The goal here should be to move everyone who wants to be moved, to a brighter bulb that works properly in our headlights, and throws the light properly where it needs to go vs just puking it out all over the place in an improper manner.

The fact we get these ongoing new threads about "what LED bulb to buy" is proof that the increasing various threads on this topic are either confusing folks, overwhelming them, or misleading them.

1000% agree.

I've bought 9006 Bulbs on Amazon that were perfect in the car I had at the time. After an unfortunate rock through a lens and replacing the housing with an identical housing, I bought the same bulb from the same brand, having simply opened the page through my purchase history, and it was different on every front. Different manufacturing technique, different chip, everything. Raw disappointment all around.

And when all was said and done, I got some decent-quality halogens from Autozone and called it a day. I didn't want a box of "almost" bulbs.

 

[ST Gui]

better be carefull the headlight police are everywhere

Don't blind others with your lights and headlight police will never give you a first look let alone a second. There aren't enough headlight police. You don't need them to tell you light that's not where you need it doesn't do you any good.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

The configuration designed did not permit an H4 because of maximum wattage in a DOT-spec headlight housing of that volume.

This is what I am curious about, the reason for the restriction to a maximum of 45 Watts. Are you certain that the volume of the headlamp housing is the determinant of the maximum permissible Wattage? I ask because there are other motorcycles with what appear to be smaller headlamp housings that use the standard H4 bulb, some that have really small single lamp configurations, so I wonder if that is the reason. As I wrote, I gave up trying to figure out the truth after reading a lot of the gobbledygook that is in the regulations with nothing to show for it but frustration.

So Honda commissioned a custom 45W bulb rather than the 55W or 65W common from H4 bulbs, and that was that.

The bulb used in the North American ST1300 is not proprietary to Honda, or unique to the ST1300 or Honda motorcycles for that matter. There are other motorcycle manufacturers that use the same 45 Watt bulb in North America, presumably for the same reason whatever that may be. Forums for those motorcycles also have threads asking about alternative bulbs just like we have on this forum.

 

[tpasco1995]

This is what I am curious about, the reason for the restriction to a maximum of 45 Watts. Are you certain that the volume of the headlamp housing is the determinant of the maximum permissible Wattage? I ask because there are other motorcycles with what appear to be smaller headlamp housings that use the standard H4 bulb, some that have really small single lamp configurations, so I wonder if that is the reason. As I wrote, I gave up trying to figure out the truth after reading a lot of the gobbledygook that is in the regulations with nothing to show for it but frustration.

The bulb used in the North American ST1300 is not proprietary to Honda, or unique to the ST1300 or Honda motorcycles for that matter. There are other motorcycle manufacturers that use the same 45 Watt bulb in North America, presumably for the same reason whatever that may be. Forums for those motorcycles also have threads asking about alternative bulbs just like we have on this forum.

The problem with getting to the bottom is that CFR updates happen annually and there aren't many records maintained from 20+ years ago that are easily accessible.

I don't believe it's specifically that 45W is more than is allowable for the volume so much as the 5W position bulb in the same housing pushes it too high.

H4 bulbs can be 65W within spec, so the housing would have to be DOT-rated for 140W total (two position bulbs and two max-spec H4 bulbs).

If there weren't position bulbs in a shared housing, then it would adjust overhead significantly.

I'm not seeing other motorcycles with the same H4 variant bulbs being used; if there were other manufacturers going down the same path, then it would be a choice to source one of those bulbs for the ST1300. Unfortunately, there's nobody popping in here saying "the bulb from a Vulcan is a perfect fit at $14 a piece" or similar.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I'm not seeing other motorcycles with the same H4 variant bulbs being used; if there were other manufacturers going down the same path, then it would be a choice to source one of those bulbs for the ST1300. Unfortunately, there's nobody popping in here saying "the bulb from a Vulcan is a perfect fit at $14 a piece" or similar.

There is no point to using the bulb from one of these other manufacturers as they are all 45 Watts as well, which is why they are also looking for different bulbs that will fit their housings the same as owners of ST's, both the 1100 and the 1300 variant, have been doing for years.

 

[dduelin]

Don't blind others with your lights and headlight police will never give you a first look let alone a second. There aren't enough headlight police. You don't need them to tell you light that's not where you need it doesn't do you any good.

For me the headlight police are all around me. They are the motorists I share the roadways with. For my part I never (well, exceedingly rarely) get flashed by annoyed drivers with the LED lights I have installed but I occasionally get flashed when I'm in the CX-5 with stock LED lighting. My Wing, RT, and NC all have aftermarket LEDs in the stock fixtures and each has auxiliary LED lights for increased visibility to others.

 

[ST Gui]

My Wing, RT, and NC all have aftermarket LEDs in the stock fixtures and each has auxiliary LED lights for increased visibility to others.

My car and my ST have LED headlights — F2s for my car and G2s for the ST. I took the time to aim them properly and haven't been flashed yet.

I will note that there's a particular street I drive where traffic is stopped at a light on a slight incline. So any car at the limit line in either direction is pointing up slightly. I see LEDs are much brighter at that angle then incans. When the light changes the brightness 'returns to normal' so to speak and all's well.

 

[ST Gui]

Old-ish Thread Alert

This is what I am curious about, the reason for the restriction to a maximum of 45 Watts.

I know I read here on this site someone stating there being no physical barrier separating the L/R bulbs/reflectors is the reason for the 45/45W limitation. My idle speculation for this is additional light spilling over from one bulb/reflector to the the other results in some distortion of the beam pattern that can't respond to adjustment. Whether or not I'm correct and whether or not this is a serious consideration or the result of bureaucratic pedantry - I have no idea.

When I went to G2 LEDs in my ST the 55/65W bulbs I replaced the factory 45/45Ws with went to my ST buddy. He said the improvement was very satisfactory. I don't know if this change aroused any ire of other drivers. He never mentioned it and he's not one to deliberately antagonize anyone for anything.

My guess is that every NA bike with dual headlights that lacks a physical barrier between L/R bulb/reflectors is limited to 45/45W bulbs. Otherwise I'm fine chalking it up to one of life's little mysteries.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Old-ish Thread Alert


I know I read here on this site someone stating there being no physical barrier separating the L/R bulbs/reflectors is the reason for the 45/45W limitation. My idle speculation for this is additional light spilling over from one bulb/reflector to the the other results in some distortion of the beam pattern that can't respond to adjustment. Whether or not I'm correct and whether or not this is a serious consideration or the result of bureaucratic pedantry - I have no idea.

When I went to G2 LEDs in my ST the 55/65W bulbs I replaced the factory 45/45Ws with went to my ST buddy. He said the improvement was very satisfactory. I don't know if this change aroused any ire of other drivers. He never mentioned it and he's not one to deliberately antagonize anyone for anything.

My guess is that every NA bike with dual headlights that lacks a physical barrier between L/R bulb/reflectors is limited to 45/45W bulbs. Otherwise I'm fine chalking it up to one of life's little mysteries.

I have read that as well. My truck is similar, kind of, in that there is not a complete physical separation between the low and high beam housings on the same side- four lamp system. It has regular Wattage bulbs so, even though it not a very good analogy, it leaves me wondering if it is more a matter of the physical distance, or lack thereof, between the two low and two high beams in a four beam system. My truck has a low beam and a high beam housing on each side of the truck separated by the width of the truck, whereas the ST1300 has two low beams and two high beams literally side-by-each. I have looked through the regulations (NOT with a fine tooth comb due to the mind-numbing effect) and read that there are minimum distances required between lamp housings for automobiles/trucks, but I never figured it out for motorcycles. I do tend to think that it has more to do with the distance between the two headlamp housings that restricts the maximum Wattage rather than whether or not there is a complete physical barrier between the two. Just a guess on my part.

 

[Catmandu2]

For me the headlight police are all around me. They are the motorists I share the roadways with. For my part I never (well, exceedingly rarely) get flashed by annoyed drivers with the LED lights I have installed but I occasionally get flashed when I'm in the CX-5 with stock LED lighting. My Wing, RT, and NC all have aftermarket LEDs in the stock fixtures and each has auxiliary LED lights for increased visibility to others.

Right on, Dave. I do concede that my lighting is exceptionally bright. As a result,, I am quite active with both my high/low beams (even in daytime),,, and my headlight aiming. The Ontario traffic act requires that high beams be lowered, even in the daytime hours. And I find that oncoming traffic never flashes me,,, if they see that I have lowered my beams while approaching. And of course, the only way that they can see that,, is if they were raised to begin with. Also,,, we have that electric aiming for a reason, so often I will aim the beams to the lowest position during early evening while driving in town. I prefer these practices to waiting for someone to flash me,,, and then flashing them back,,, cheers,,, CAt'

 

[ST Gui]

I do tend to think that it has more to do with the distance between the two headlamp housings that restricts the maximum Wattage rather than whether or not there is a complete physical barrier between the two. Just a guess on my part.

I think that's apples and oranges.

The spacing of lights on a car or truck is probably more about a wider beam pattern then photon conflict or beam scatter between adjacent assemblies not to mention they're in fully discrete assemblies.

Obviously distance between headlights isn't much of a consideration on bikes. Maybe on some H-Ds or John Player Nortons. No other bikes come to mind though there may be others. So I see distance between headlights and physical barriers as different means to the same end if both were applicable to bikes.

Since it's bikes in question I'd think that barriers have to be significant if there are other bike not restricted to 45/45W. Or what is it about their headlight construction that wouldn't have that restriction. Not examining an array of different dual symmetrical identical bulb/reflector assemblies I don't know if/that "other" bikes have a greater distance between them. Something about them obviates the restriction.

Having experienced the same mind-numbness trying to navigate the CFR I leave it to someone/anyone else to find the relevant section and phrase to explain why there are haves and have nots.

 

[Bright Rider]

I just looked on the Cougar website and could not purchase the F2 Plus or F3. There are H4 mini LEDs in H4 bulbs. Would these work in our STs like the F2s and F3s. Apparently they are 18k lumens so plenty bright. I just wonder about the LEDs position in the housing and other potential issues. Has anyone here tried these yet?