<heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphrams. Again.

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Noticed a significant drop in power on Thursday, after 3000+ miles from home with no noticeable problems. Pulled the carbs and found #s 3 and 4 with significant tears in the diaphragms and #s 1 and 2 both with radial cracks. Luckily, Adam has (had!) extras on hand. So, replaced all 4, 2 from his spares stash and 2 more from a set of funky defunct carbs.

I filled up in Casey at the BP near the Comfort Inn, but I've filled up there plenty of times so can't blame the gas. I'm wondering if my use of Ether to get started at least three times last November (brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!) might be a contributing factor?

Anyway, here's a few pics, just for reference:
IMG_6390 (1600x1200).jpg
From the funky carbs, #s 2 and 4 came out the bores okay, but pretty cruddy, here's one cleaned and the other in as-removed state.

Next shows the bores and broken sliders for #s 1 and 3 plus the salvaged diaphragms. Except for a few loose screws, etc. these carbs are worthless.
IMG_6391 (1600x1200).jpg IMG_6393 (1600x1200).jpg

The really torn diaphragm was from lipSTick's #4. It wasn't this bad when first removed but was trying to see if I could get the old diaphragm out without destroying the slider. No luck so far. I'll work on this more when I get some free time.
IMG_6397 (1600x1200).jpg

Next is a close up of the carb adjustment screws. Note there are TWO springs, one on the screw and another below. The lower one is just stuck in there, nothing to hold it but tension. I can imagine if one of those got knocked out ic could really screw with yur carb adjustment.

IMG_6399 (1600x1200).jpg

Last is the gas line feed from the vacuum shut-off to the carbs. The one on the right (from the vacuum unit to the split manifold) is the one that cracked on me last November as I was headed across Arizona. The one on the far left (which feeds the left bank) split on me about a month ago when I was working on the enrichener circuit. Bottom line, those tubes get brittle over time, keep an eye on'em.
IMG_6402 (1600x1200).jpg

So, end of this story. The carbs can be troublesome as the miles pile up. This is the second time I've lost all 4 (did it on ReSTored a couple years ago too.) I think I've now replace 9 diaphragms. Guess that's not bad over 425,000 miles. :D
 
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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

pics not working george " Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"
but glad to see you got back on the road quickly!
 
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George
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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

Should be okay now.

John, have you trapped the rubber sheet under a valve cover after checking yur valves yet? :D

(Gotta admit, being able to change yur air filter without removing the saddle bags is a big improvment on the 13 compared to the 11. :D)
 
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George
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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

So, anyone else have a working theory on what causes the diaphragms to give up the ghoST?
 

bdalameda

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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

I have restored many CV carbs and I have never encountered failures like you are experiencing. I too would suspect the starting fluid. Something I have always done to the diaphragms, (I think this comes from my early years as a scuba diver when I serviced my breathing regulators) I take silicone grease and work it into the surface of the diaphragms. This seems to clean and keep the material soft and flexible.

Dan
 

Fortunet 1

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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

I dont know how well this will go over, but denatured alcohol will recondition most rubber parts, and remove any moisture on them.

Larry showed me this trick on the rubber diaphrams in the brake and clutch resovoirs . Ive done it to final drive o rings with good success as well.
 

bdalameda

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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

Yes I have used alcohol on old carburetor intake boots and misc. hardened rubber parts on restorations I have done - you can soak the old parts overnight and sometimes bring them back to usable condition. Molded rubber parts are made with alcohol and over the years the alcohol evaporates out of the rubber and the rubber will harden and shrink. Not sure the slide diaphragms are made out of rubber though. I think they are made out of some kind of synthetic laminate - I could be wrong though. Maybe George could test the theory on some old diaphragms to see what happens.
 

Coop

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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

George,
You know I respect you and your love for 1100's, but maybe it's time to break down and buy a new BMW 1600GT.:D
 
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George
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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

John, I did refresh all the involved diaphragms with denatured alcohol. Seemed to make'em much better. Even the really grimy, rusty diaphragm in the picture came out looking good and feeling soft.

Gotta try to contact the UK company who makes replacement diaphragms to see if they can come up with sumpin' for us. Nothing in their catalog shows the little tab along the edge such as we need.
 
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George
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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

Another reason to keep the ST1300. ;):p:
I can buy a lot of diaphragms for the difference in price, Chuck. :D LipSTick is approaching 100,000 of my miles, for $4000 (plus part 'n labor. :rofl1:)
 

ChucksKLRST

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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

I can buy a lot of diaphragms for the difference in price, Chuck. :D LipSTick is approaching 100,000 of my miles, for $4000 (plus part 'n labor. :rofl 1:)
Buying them is one thing. Being able to get the diaphragms is another. I have 102000 of my miles on my ST13 and have bought no diaphragms. How many have you bought in your 100,000 miles.:);):D:p:
 
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George
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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

Price isn't too bad if ya buy a set of used carbs off a wreck. Between Adam and me, we still have 7 on the shelf. Plus, I got ReSTored's carb setting on the shelf.

If the 1300 had a 16" rear wheel option, and a longer wheel base, and fewer recalls over it's life (never know when another is gonna surface), and was as comfortable as an 1100, oh, and didn't have that pesky 'lectric wind screen, I might consider one. <ducking> :duck: :crackup

I've now got my sights set on the new 700S, if they ever bring it to the USA.
 
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George
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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

I understand it gets such great gas mileage, ya never need to fill it. :D
 
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George
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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

I got one'o those rotopax too. Carry it on the dirt bike tho haven't needed it yet.
 
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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

John, I did refresh all the involved diaphragms with denatured alcohol. Seemed to make'em much better. Even the really grimy, rusty diaphragm in the picture came out looking good and feeling soft.

Gotta try to contact the UK company who makes replacement diaphragms to see if they can come up with sumpin' for us. Nothing in their catalog shows the little tab along the edge such as we need.
Replaced mine with the UK diaphragms and they are identical to the originals (with the tab)and work great. If you have UK install them, great. If not there is a trick on US models because the slide is different...made of phenolic resin and the ring at the top is glued on.
There is a trick to get them off and re-install which I can walk you through if you decide to go that route.:)
 
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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

Replaced mine with the UK diaphragms and they are identical to the originals (with the tab)and work great. If you have UK install them, great. If not there is a trick on US models because the slide is different...made of phenolic resin and the ring at the top is glued on.
There is a trick to get them off and re-install which I can walk you through if you decide to go that route.
Lookit here. An answer. Hooray!

As recently as yesterday, I was researching something else (entirely else) and found a 'seal caster'. Here in Arizona. Wondered at the time if he might be able to cast one close enough...

I really think that ALL rubber parts have x number of cycles in them and, as they approach 20 years old, expire. I know mine were fairly well treated and just expired. It had nothing to do with starting fluid or long periods of inactivity...

If I ever find a source, Yamaha carbs have the same basic set up...
 

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Re: <heavy sigh> Replaced my carb diaphragms. Again.

Glad you got things sorted out and back on the road.
 
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