IN PROGRESS: 2009 Heat Mitigation

[aniwack]

Revision 2: Project Failed

---UPDATE: The project failed. The After Action Post is #13. I am leaving the original post for others to see what I did for informational purposes.---

So a SMC replacement turned into a well since my cowls are off anyways let's paint them turned into hell let's deal with the heat while we're here. (See what you got me started on Igofar? lol)

Project is a 2009 ST1300PA 72k on the odometer no previous mods from prior owner (city pd).
Reference material used: https://www.donferrario.com/St1300
Insulation (my local HD only carries 10' which is plenty to do one bike): Reflectix 24 in x 10 feet.
Foil Tape: 2 inch foil tape from the AC isle.
De-greaser from Autozone to clean off the surfaces for the foil to stick. Comes in a can. Couple bucks.

Process: The tank was already off for dent repair. I removed the air box (swapped out the filter while I was at it, good opportunity) and wrapped the frame and secured with foil tape. Make sure the area is clean and remains clear of debris. Junk in engine=no fun zone. Once the tank came back I added insulation before reinstalling on the bike. I live in a metro area world famous for its gridlock. Don't need the fuel boiling. Removed seat, insulated the entire seat and cut slits for the seat to reattach to the frame. Again, secured with foil tape. Once the cowls were back from paint I put insulation on left and right. Only right is pictured because they are the same. On the engine exhaust, covered and directed the opening downward. On the left side you'll see that the original piece wasn't long enough, was recut and attached. The final look shows how the insulation is covered by the cowls and disappears.

I'm waiting for headlights to arrive before throwing everything back on there and calling it complete. I will post an update later in the week once I get it back together and off the table.

 

[klaproth]

I'm looking forward to a ride report. I did something very similar, and it didn't really help at all....in fact, I think it might have been a bit worse. I live just north of you, and understand the gridlock! I spent yesterday morning making new support arms for my "DIY Baker air wings", to direct the rush of air a bit lower-they seem to be the only thing that has made any difference in my fight with the heat.
I have looked at Whooshka's solution ( adding a vent in the cowl), but I'm having trouble making that leap of cutting the fairing. If the lowered air wings don't help, I might consider it though.
I wish you luck in your experimentation.

 

[Whooshka]

I'm not sure about the "curtain" from the heads on down. That might be trapping heat that needs to escape.

 

[aniwack]

I'm not sure about the "curtain" from the heads on down. That might be trapping heat that needs to escape.

One of the blogs recommended it to ‘force the heat down’. Everything at this point is exploratory. Headlights are due in Tuesday and then I can finally get it back together again.

 

[jodog]

I would be surprised if that helps with the heat. Baker Air Wings are the only effective solution I have found.

Bob

 

[dduelin]

Boots and riding pants.

 

[aniwack]

Update 1

So I finally got a chance to get everything back together and went for a spin. First thing was the amount of space that the closest layer of insulation. Pics show what came out. Next was adding more to the cowels on the sides and towards the back. The pics include showing the main area to focus on.
Overall it did cut down a significant amount of the heat. Personally I'd prefer not to roast chestnuts over an open flame sitting in gridlock. I'm happy for now but as with anything I do odds are I'll end up tweaking something.
The full length ride is this weekend. I've been dodging thunderstorms most of the afternoon trying to finish the shakedown.

https://youtu.be/YSedTrKKQFw

 

[aniwack]

Good long ride #1:
I rode in to the office today and wow what a difference the insulation made. It's not 100% sealed but it makes the ride in gridlock more bearable. The only thing I am going to tweak is where the cowl meets the tank/frame. If you can seal there the heat will be more directed towards the openings. It was quite tellable that the heat was coming out the vents as I idled. I was able to pull my legs into the riding slot and I wasn't cooking. Also (refer to my first post) I have insulation on the bottom of the seat. I would add more to the frame under the mounting hardware more as a tunnel for any heat coming down the tank area to vent further back.

Overall 90% improvement vs no insulation.

 

[T_C]

Cool!

 

[SMSW]

Cool!

Don't you mean COOLER! ?:bow1:

 

[ST_korn]

Be sure to check the sync on your throttle bodies. My #3 cylinder was way out and running lean. That was the source of most om my engine heat. After fixing the heat issues are minimal.

 

[Honda-st-team]

Thanks for the info

 

[aniwack]

I need my Peter Jennings sound effect: BREEAAKING NEWS!!!! </echo>

So I work with some engineers on a massive billion dollar project and they have a thermal camera. <ding> Let's see what the bike is doing in actual heat value. So I've got the insulation on the bottom of the tank, bottom of the seat, and on the side cowls. I'm happy as I'm not roasting my chestnuts over an open blowtorch sitting in gridlock because in Georgia splitting lanes is a nasty $700 ticket and bike impound. So I thought I was fine as I got the heat off of me. Well....

Fast forward to getting the engineers with their fancy thermal camera to take a look. And holy cal what a surprise. Now I had followed the advise of the now famous blog of trying to duct the heat down and away. Yeah... it doesn't work. At all. On the IR the frame was glowing OMG hot. Now the tank wasn't boiling due to the insulation on the bottom. But you could see how it was baking at several hundo in the area with the air filter. So what do engineers like to do? Problem solve. First the cowls came off. Instant temp drop. Then one of the guys wanted to 3D print ram scoops to install in the side cowls to force air in. Problem with that idea is to move air the bike must move. In gridlock. So I've pulled all in insulation off and I'm back at square one.

So let's start looking at the source of the heat. I was running the Honda brand 10w40 standard oil. At the advise of Igofar-sensei I've switched to a 15w40 Diesel Oil. All of the cowls and fairings are in place and I've raised the seat to the highest position. We ran the camera on the bike again yesterday during lunch and the engine glow was significantly less. ie less heat. So wow, yes the oil made a (20%?) decrease in engine temp. Also replaced was the thermostat (it was ugly anyways) and flushed the coolant (I do that anyways). Larry-sensei has recommended syncing the throttle bodies. I've got the service manual so that's going to be next once the kids head out to summer camp (I never thought I'd look forward to them leaving for a week so I can actually work) for a week of ahhh.....

So bottoms up as I once again start pulling panels to start the throttle body sync without DAD!!!! DAAAAAADDD!!!! echoing throughout the shop.

Updates as they warrant. Dilly Dilly.

 

[ST Gui]

Then one of the guys wanted to 3D print ram scoops to install in the side cowls to force air in.

I like the way he thinks!

 

[klaproth]

Updates as they warrant. Dilly Dilly.

I don't have the gridlock problem AS bad, up here in NW Georgia, but one DOES have to slow down occasionally. I added some of the insulation you did, especially at the back part of the cowls. On Igofar's recommendation, ( and it was on sale at Costco), I got Delo to put in the bike, but I did that years ago, so not sure if it had any effect...the bike was STILL hot to ride.

I had a rain day on Thursday, and removed the panels for a bit more insulation, and added venting , ala' Whooshka, to see if that wold help. I have a nice ride coming up, and wanted it to be as heat-free as possible. I'll do an experimental ride in the near future.

 

[T_C]

I'll need to keep following what y'all southerners do. For me the heat more builds on the inside of my thighs, not so much the centralized location. More about 6 inches back from the knees. If the upper tank is getting low, I can start to feel the pain in the chestnuts.

Need to do a valve check soon. Might be time to try some foil. I've been running Delo since the steed was mine so no change there.

I do use the seat raising brackets, some air is escaping from the increased gap between the tank and seat.

 

[SMSW]

So let's start looking at the source of the heat. I was running the Honda brand 10w40 standard oil. At the advise of Igofar-sensei I've switched to a 15w40 Diesel Oil. All of the cowls and fairings are in place and I've raised the seat to the highest position. We ran the camera on the bike again yesterday during lunch and the engine glow was significantly less. ie less heat. So wow, yes the oil made a (20%?) decrease in engine temp. Also replaced was the thermostat (it was ugly anyways) and flushed the coolant (I do that anyways). Larry-sensei has recommended syncing the throttle bodies.

I applaud your trying to mitigate the heat, but I think a few of your observations are flawed. First, the source of heat is the thing so many of us love about the ST - the V4 engine. The cooling system simply moves that heat around and keeps the block at a constant temperature, so while Honda did a poor job of dumping that heat overboard, the radiator is not your source. (Ultimately we are probably arguing whether the glass is half full or half empty.) Sitting literally inches away from a 200 odd pound block of aluminum that is burning gasoline with minimal airflow is a more efficient way to roast chestnuts than those carts used by pretzel and chestnut vendors in New York.

Using a thermal camera to find how the heat flows is a great idea, but you cannot change several parameters, test again, and then say any improvement is due to one of those changes. Explain to me how changing the oil brand (your viscosity change was not that significant) lowered your engine temp. Ask the engineers what they think here. The two oils you mentioned have the same viscosity at operating temperatures (w/ minor differences, perhaps) and the same heat capacity. Moving the seat might allow more airflow, but then the heat will flow around your crotch area so I wonder how that helps comfort in traffic. If it changes your riding position (re: Larry's comment in another thread about pushing your knees outward) then I understand the decrease in perceived heat.

Were the environmental conditions for both tests (before oil change and after) identical? Did the bike idle for the same length of time? Did you check engine block temp before running the two tests to verify conditions were the same?

 

[aniwack]

Conditions were 82 degrees at night with the bike having rode 35 miles in moving traffic. I can't give the super specific how hot the engine block was because it's their handheld camera thing that gives brighter colors the hotter it was. The block itself was consistent in its core temps. What we were looking for was how to dump the excess heat out from behind the cowls. The primary issue and the whole point of the post is how to deal with the heat load on an idling bike as to not burn the rider. The hypothesis was by insulating the heat could be ducted downward and out. What the camera showed was conditions hotter than an Easy-Bake oven. Temps that high start melting the main harness. When the main harness melts then you're looking at a seriously bad day.
To reiterate: The bike is fine while moving. It's the 45 minutes of 0-3 mph when you're riding the clutch crawling along that everything bakes.

I'll let Larry handle the oil explanation. I went with the Valvoline Heavy Duty Diesel Oil 15W-40.

 

[aniwack]

I had to call the engineer before I posted because I wanted to be correct. With the insulation on and running 10w40, the surface temp was 180(ish). With the insulation off and running diesel oil, the surface temp dropped to 140 AND the temp of the cooling system (he meant radiator) increased. With the thicker 15w40 the heat is being channeled better into the coolant then being translated to the radiator.
Now to find that magical sweet spot with the sync.

 

[Igofar]

I'm your huckleberry