installing throttle tamer

[Kevcules]

Got a throttle tamer and wanted to install it soon. I've read alot that talks about pretty much destroying the grip heater when you try to remove it from the tube. Can that be done without harming the heating mechanism? Should I have new grips on hand in case I need a new one? Do the heaters mostly come with the grip installed on a tube , as a complete assembly?
Can anyone tell me what brand of heating grip system I have? Where to look possibly for the identifying brand name?

thanks

 

[T_C]

I think that's the Honda OEM one. With careful application of a boning knife you should be able to peel off the old element. I'd use elmers or some rubber cement (conatct style) to apply to the new tube. I think I did wrap my G2 tube in electrical tape before gluing on the heater element, I was afraid the knurling would dig in an and short out the circuit.

 

[CYYJ]

Hello Kev:

For sure, that is a Honda OEM grip heater. It is out of production now, and spare parts (controller, heated grips) are no longer available.

Whether you can successfully recycle the right hand heated grip depends entirely on whether you can slide it off the existing throttle tube without damaging it. I suggest you go about this process by disconnecting the right grip heater from the wiring harness (this will probably require removal of the left side Tupperware, because the wiring harness terminates under the left side fairing pocket), then disassembly of the right grip - removing the heated grip and original Honda throttle tube that it is affixed to, and taking that assembly to a workbench.

You might be able to then coax the existing Honda heated grip off of the OEM throttle tube by sliding a long, thin awl between the grip and the throttle tube. Whether you succeed will depend on the quality of the adhesive that was used to attach the heated grip when it was installed.

I suggest that when you install the heated grip over the Throttle Tamer tube, you use an adhesive that is specifically made for attaching motorcycle handgrips. The grip gets hot (understandably) when operating, and this might result in softening of generic adhesives such as contact cement.

Pay careful attention to the orientation of the electrical cable that exits the heated grip before you glue it onto the Throttle Tamer tube - you want the wire to exit facing straight downwards when the throttle grip is at idle. This will ensure that the cable rotates to point forward when you open the throttle.

Pay close attention to the instructions that come with the Throttle Tamer, in particular, the instruction to leave about 1 or 2 mm of slack (backlash) in the throttle cable assembly when you install the new throttle tube. Because the cam on the Throttle Tamer is eccentric (vs. perfectly round on the OEM tube), you will likely need to make some adjustments to the 10 mm nut that attach the upper throttle cable to the right handgrip. This nut is in the upper throttle cable, about 2 inches beyond where the cable exits the left side handlebar switch assembly.

Michael

 

[Kevcules]

Thanks guys for the information....I thought I might have to remove the complete right grip assembly to try and gently remove the outside grip off the tube, we'll see.
Luckily when I was into the throttle body sync last year, I took out a lot of throttle cable slack from the bottom location , so if the tamer needs some more slack taken out , I should be able to do that at the grip.
There were no instructions that came with the G2 tamer but I think it's pretty straight forward thanks to the information on here and youtube. I'm just concerned with removing the grip without damaging it and using the proper adhesive to prevent issues afterwards.
thanks again

 

[St1300biker]

Installed my G2 throttle tamer today plus a new right hand honda heated grip. Yes the latter is available in the UK, but not the left.

Paul

 

[ST Gui]

Installed my G2 throttle tamer

Great! If you haven't already done so removing excess play to at most- Honda specs - also helps with smoothing out low end throttle response.

 

[St1300biker]

removing excess play to at most- Honda specs - also helps with smoothing out low end throttle response.

Yep did that too. Give it a run tomorrow a..m. when it will be cooler (currently 26 degrees C)

 

[CYYJ]

...removing excess play to at most- Honda specs - also helps with smoothing out low end throttle response.

The key word here is "excess". Don't adjust things so that there is too little play, or you will have problems.

The Honda Service Manual (page 3-5) provides the following guidance:

1) Free play (backlash) in the throttle cable system should be between 2 and 6 mm (1/16th to 1/4 of an inch).
2) Minor adjustments are made with the small nut on the right handlebar.
3) Major adjustments are made with the adjuster on the throttle body (requires airbox removal).

Based on my own experience, I suggest that you set backlash in the middle of the range (4 mm, 1/8th of an inch). It's difficult to measure this on the cable itself unless you measure at the throttle body, so I measure at the inboard end of the rubber throttle handgrip - in other words, I put a bit of masking tape on the hard black plastic part that is the outboard end of the housing for the kill switch, then I hold a pen against the inboard (flared) end of the rubber handgrip and measure how far I can wiggle the handgrip back and forth (when at idle position) without activating the throttle bodies.

If you have too little backlash in the system, you may encounter unwanted increase in RPM when you move the handlebars to the extreme left or right position, or you may encounter increased resistance to throttle grip operation when you turn the handlebars. If you are uncertain, excess backlash is safer (not better, but simply safer) than too little backlash.

If you have problems with throttle cable operation, it's worth taking the airbox off and looking at the ends of the throttle cables where they connect to the throttle body assembly. There's a lot of tightly-packed and squashed stuff down there - vacuum hoses, coolant hoses, wires, etc. - and it's not uncommon to discover that one of those things is fouling the free movement of the throttle cable assembly or the bellcrank that the throttle cables connect to.

Honda recommends lubrication of the throttle cables. There are different opinions amongst owners about the benefits vs. disadvantages of lubrication. If a bike spends its life in Arizona or Dubai (both very dry locations), the cables might not need lubrication. But if a bike spends its life in a saline atmosphere (UK, American Pacific Northwest), lubrication might be needed. A good way to verify if there is any binding or friction/stiction in the Bowden cables is to disconnect them at the throttle bodies, then operate the throttle handgrip. When doing this, be sure to repeat the check with the handlebars at the full left lock, full right lock, and center positions. There are specific lubricants made for lubricating Bowden cables, and there is also a small tool available for inserting the lubricant into the cable.

Michael

 

[St1300biker]

The key word here is "excess". Don't adjust things so that there is too little play, or you will have problems.

The Honda Service Manual (page 3-5) provides the following guidance:

1) Free play (backlash) in the throttle cable system should be between 2 and 6 mm (1/16th to 1/4 of an inch).
2) Minor adjustments are made with the small nut on the right handlebar.
3) Major adjustments are made with the adjuster on the throttle body (requires airbox removal).

Based on my own experience, I suggest that you set backlash in the middle of the range (4 mm, 1/8th of an inch). It's difficult to measure this on the cable itself unless you measure at the throttle body, so I measure at the inboard end of the rubber throttle handgrip - in other words, I put a bit of masking tape on the hard black plastic part that is the outboard end of the housing for the kill switch, then I hold a pen against the inboard (flared) end of the rubber handgrip and measure how far I can wiggle the handgrip back and forth (when at idle position) without activating the throttle bodies.

If you have too little backlash in the system, you may encounter unwanted increase in RPM when you move the handlebars to the extreme left or right position, or you may encounter increased resistance to throttle grip operation when you turn the handlebars. If you are uncertain, excess backlash is safer (not better, but simply safer) than too little backlash.

If you have problems with throttle cable operation, it's worth taking the airbox off and looking at the ends of the throttle cables where they connect to the throttle body assembly. There's a lot of tightly-packed and squashed stuff down there - vacuum hoses, coolant hoses, wires, etc. - and it's not uncommon to discover that one of those things is fouling the free movement of the throttle cable assembly or the bellcrank that the throttle cables connect to.

Honda recommends lubrication of the throttle cables. There are different opinions amongst owners about the benefits vs. disadvantages of lubrication. If a bike spends its life in Arizona or Dubai (both very dry locations), the cables might not need lubrication. But if a bike spends its life in a saline atmosphere (UK, American Pacific Northwest), lubrication might be needed. A good way to verify if there is any binding or friction/stiction in the Bowden cables is to disconnect them at the throttle bodies, then operate the throttle handgrip. When doing this, be sure to repeat the check with the handlebars at the full left lock, full right lock, and center positions. There are specific lubricants made for lubricating Bowden cables, and there is also a small tool available for inserting the lubricant into the cable.

Michael

Thanks MIchael for your prompt response, comprehensive and wise advice.

I took the bike for a run this morning.

Firstly, no problems with the free-play.

Secondly, having spent over 170GBP for both the G2 Throttle Tamer and the new Honda heated grip, I must say I am disappointed as no meaningful improvement in first or second gear regarding the less than smooth acceleration, particularly in view of the rave reviews on this forum. The only slight improvement I did notice was over bumps and potholes.

This leaves me with 3 questions:-

1. Are all ST13s the same when stock? If so, why is it that no reviews online or magazines mention the issue. What is it about the V4 engine that causes the problem, as opposed to an inline 4?

2. If the answer to 1. is "No", then there must be some other reason e.g. throttle bodies not balanced accurately. Any thoughts on this?

As it stands, my advice to others considering this mod but before incurring the cost, is to test ride an ST that has been done

Paul

 

[Whooshka]

Being a V4 has nothing to do with it. It's early fuel injection that was not managed correctly by manufacturers because they were concentrating on complying with new emissions standards. Thus driveability was compromised.

The ST is nothing compared to my 2006 Yamaha FZ1. Think snatchy throttle with a 460 lb., 150 HP bike. There were some scary midcorner moments on that until I had the ECU flashed.

 

[St1300biker]

It's early fuel injection that was not managed correctly by manufacturers because they were concentrating on complying with new emissions standards. Thus driveability was compromised.

You may well be correct, but I owned 2 fjr1300s (model 1 and later) and neither had this issue.

Paul

 

[ST Gui]

Don't adjust things so that there is too little play, or you will have problems.

The key words here are too little. Including too ascribes intrinsic fault - as is to expected by virtue of its definition. I disagree that any play whatsoever is required based on my experience.

The reason a manufacture's spec includes play in the throttle cable is likely twofold - it's a holdover safety factor from bikes that used single cable throttles and there are still some today. It's also keeps some shade-tree guy from improperly adjusting one or both cables of a dual setup to the point of inoperability or creating a dangerous condition however unlikely that may be thus shielding a manufacturer from liability.

I adjust for 0 (zero) play as I have on all my dual-throttle cable bikes for years. It's ridiculously easy to check if your preferred method of adjustment will affect an increase in RPM. Turn the bars. If there's no problem - there's no problem. If the RPM increases then check cable routing and adjustment. I do it in that order. This has worked for me since my first dual throttle cable bike -the GL1000 IIRC and still works today.

As I've mentioned before I can concoct a scenario where my method might have a problem. In a climate of extreme temperature change - say in a desert location where day and night see extreme temperature changes or a state that has a real summer and winter - cable slack might be required.

Adjust the cable to 0 play on a warm to hot day and maybe at night the temperature swing is enough to cause the cable to contract enough to open the throttle beyond idle. Similarly do the same on a hot day in the summer and see the same result come ol' Man Winter.

I have no idea if that is even a possibility. This is just put out there in the spirit of the "I'd be concerned about..." types to give them something to be concerned about. I've never had the occasion of location or weather to experience this or do any empirical testing. I have no issue with anybody following Honda's recommendation for free play the same as following the recommended tire pressure of 42lbs.

Possibility and probability are two different things. In any objective discussion of methodology the issue of existence and relationship need to be recognized/considered/evaluated. Preferences may be subjective ie why doesn't ATGATT include airbag jackets and vests. If somebody can show me why 0 tolerance (in throttle cable play) is wrong then it'll get a rethink.

 

[CYYJ]

...If somebody can show me why 0 tolerance (in throttle cable play) is wrong then it'll get a rethink.

Hi Robert:

In a perfect world, there should be no problems arising from having zero backlash (zero free play) in the throttle cable system. If you can adjust things so that everything works well with zero free play, great.

Where I think a problem arises with having zero free play is that too many associated factors cannot be controlled. For example, you mentioned temperature difference as a possible concern, and cited the range of temperatures encountered in a desert environment. In fact, during normal riding in a non-extreme environment, far greater temperature variations are encountered: consider the temperature of the lower half of the throttle cables when you are stuck in stop-and-go traffic on a hot summer day, and the fans on the ST radiator are whirring, trying to remove heat from the engine, vs. the temperature of the cables when you first started the bike that morning.

To me, the decision hinges on a risk-benefit analysis. There's no benefit to removing all of the free play from the throttle system, but there are associated risks, the risks being that the control system (the connection between the throttle grip & the throttle bodies) will not always perform correctly if no backlash is available.

I don't see any problem arising from adjusting the system to achieve the minimum specified backlash (2 mm, or 1/16th of an inch) if the owner is a meticulous mechanic and ensures that all other possible problems (cable routing, cable lubrication, interference from other components, etc.) are eliminated. But I just don't see any benefit associated with removing all backlash. As I noted in my post above, I set my backlash to the middle of the range (4 mm, or 1/8 of an inch), and I cannot note any problems associated with that. Because of the presence of the spring in the bellcrank assembly at the throttle body, the backlash will only be detectable at the throttle idle position - it's not detectable nor does it affect engine RPM control when the throttle is at any position other than idle.

To sum up, I'm not saying that zero backlash is wrong - I'm saying that zero backlash is less than optimal.

Michael

 

[Whooshka]

You may well be correct, but I owned 2 fjr1300s (model 1 and later) and neither had this issue.

Paul

Funny, I'm looking to move to an FJR because it's throttle response is better than the ST. That and it's lighter weight is a need for my increasing age and declining health.

My 2 cents but the biggest reason to have just a little play in the throttle is for hitting bumps and pot holes. Hit one unexpectedly and the jarring of the bar could cause an unplanned twist of the grip, possibly even jerking the bike out from under you.

 

[Larry Fine]

I adjust my cable so, if there was any less slack, it would be zero, but it's darned close to zero.

I wiggle the throttle as I adjust the adjuster sleeve, and lock it down when I'm happy with it.

 

[ST Gui]

If you can adjust things so that everything works well with zero free play, great.

In point of fact there's no if about it. As I stated above it has worked for me over many years and several bikes. I would like to know what problem(s) have actually arisen from 0 freeplay. I have experienced none. 0.

For example, you mentioned temperature difference as a possible concern, and cited the range of temperatures encountered in a desert environment. In fact, during normal riding in a non-extreme environment, far greater temperature variations are encountered: consider the temperature of the lower half of the throttle cables when you are stuck in stop-and-go traffic on a hot summer day, and the fans on the ST radiator are whirring, trying to remove heat from the engine, vs. the temperature of the cables when you first started the bike that morning.

I said "I can concoct a scenario where my method might might have a problem... I have no idea if that is even a possibility" as I've never been in those extremes. I have experienced the extremes of engine heat in proximity to the cables without issue and without incurring any deviation from 0 freeplay to any freeplay. If that could occur that would move me from sub-optimal to optimal according to your assessment. At this point I believe that short term stretch of the cables is insignificant to nonexistent in practical applications.

For you example to be relevant assuming it's even possible - I'd have to set a 0 play state when the engine can cables are hot and then ride when in weather that overcomes any influence of engine heat. Outside of that it would be 0" at cold and X" when hot. Just what is the amount of stretch to be expected?

Where I think a problem arises with having zero free play is that too many associated factors cannot be controlled.

I'd like to see some evidence that there are actually associated factors that would come into play aside from theorizing possibility without considering probability.

My 2 cents but the biggest reason to have just a little play in the throttle is for hitting bumps and pot holes. Hit one unexpectedly and the jarring of the bar could cause an unplanned twist of the grip, possibly even jerking the bike out from under you.

This would assume the rider is advancing under closed throttle/at idle and hits a bump that would not have caused acceleration above idle or not as much above idle if there had been 1/16" to 1/4" play in the cables? That seems like stretch to me. If the same rider is off idle and hits the same bump the amount of acceleration would be even greater I believe.

I was laboring under the misconception of 1/8" being the minimum freeplay Honda recommends as acceptable. It's actually 1/16". So Honda is saying "anywhere between the two is good".

Again I have no issue whatsoever with how anybody wants to make their play. Without any evidence to the contrary I say setting play 1/16" to 1/4" for dual throttle cables poses no safety advantage over 0 play and that believing it does relies on unproven/untested theory as opposed to actual experience. I believe this is one of my agree to disagree times.

Next up: spark plug gap. How much is just right? I'll stipulate 0 gap is counterproductive.

 

[Whooshka]

.....................
This would assume the rider is advancing under closed throttle/at idle and hits a bump that would not have caused acceleration above idle or not as much above idle if there had been 1/16" to 1/4" play in the cables? That seems like stretch to me. If the same rider is off idle and hits the same bump the amount of acceleration would be even greater I believe.
.............

Any circumstance actually. Say you're cruising along at 40 and your eyes wander and you hit a speed bump or 5 inch deep pot hole you didn't see coming. The throttle is going to do an unplanned move under your hand.

 

[ST Gui]

Say you're cruising along at 40 and your eyes wander and you hit a speed bump or 5 inch deep pot hole you didn't see coming. The throttle is going to do an unplanned move under your hand.

Yes it is. And 1/4" of play isn't going to make a damn bit of difference. The throttle is under load and that unplanned move under your hand is subject to the throttle return spring. Any in-spec play set doesn't matter or 'exist' off idle. Run your scenario with a bike having a deadman's throttle (no return spring) and 1/4" play still won't make a difference.

The inclusion of an inflatable jacket or vest airbag may affect the outcome of a collision. Yet it's not considered ATGATT by the overwhelming majority of riders if this forum is any example.

IF somebody can demonstrate a likely situation where 1/16-1/4" of freeplay will affect the safety or other functionality of operation where it will affect the outcome of a situation then I'll give it a rethink.

 

[CYYJ]

...I say setting play 1/16" to 1/4" for dual throttle cables poses no safety advantage over 0 play...

Hi Robert:

My rationale for including some backlash - even if it is only the minimum specified amount of backlash - is pretty simple:

We probably all agree that having "less than zero" backlash - in other words, having throttle cables that are too tight in both directions - is undesirable due to the excessive wear caused within the Bowden cables, on the bellcranks & bellcrank rotation points, and the increase in friction / stiction within the throttle control mechanism.

If you set the throttle system up so that there is zero backlash, you have no buffer against movement into the "less than zero" (too tight) range. This movement could be caused by errors when setting things up, or by external factors such as components within the throttle system or adjacent to the throttle system moving slightly after the throttle rigging has been carried out.

If, on the other hand, you set the system up with some backlash - even if it is the minimum specified amount - they you do have assurance that you won't accidentally slip into the "too tight" scenario, and if you do, you'll recognize the problem immediately due to the absence of backlash.

I do know that when rigging aircraft primary flight control surfaces, whether cable-operated or rod-actuated, there is always a specification to leave some amount of backlash in the system. The same applies to aircraft engine control systems - there is always a specification for a wee bit of backlash. Aircraft flight control surfaces and aircraft engine controls are similar to ST throttle systems in that they are dual-action systems (they get pulled in both directions), not single-action systems.

Michael

 

[Larry Fine]

That's why I go for almost zero.