Lights stay on when ignition switch in Off, bike won't start

[STDaveNW]

I had the same problem on the way to NatStoc in 2012. The dealer near Omaha Nebraska found a major connection in the wiring harness had fried, melted. The place in question was below the throttle body. I saw it when they replaced it. The stealer also said there was a recall on the harness in 04. Next thinking the issue was repaired in Omaha, it happened to me again about a week after I got back to Tennessee. I found that the battery was bad, apparently not enough amps to work the relays correctly, the fuel pump would not come on and the lights would stay on, just like your description. I replaced it and I have not had any other issues. Replace the battery! before you rip out the wiring harness.

How will a weak or dead battery keep the marker lights on after ignition is off? I hope your problem stays away but that solution does not feel right. Anyway I just put a new battery in it as it sat for over 2 years.

 

[seawalker]

The strange part is only the tail lights and one head light stayed on with the side markers
Don't know I just know I replaced the battery and I have not had any problems since.

I presume it takes a certain number of amps or volts to release the relay to turn off the lights

 

[STDaveNW]

The strange part is only the tail lights and one head light stayed on with the side markers
Don't know I just know I replaced the battery and I have not had any problems since.

I presume it takes a certain number of amps or volts to release the relay to turn off the lights

I don't have any headlights at all just marker and tail lights. Mine are also NOT heat related as it only shows up cold (so far)
Perplexing huh?

 

[bwoodsom]

I started getting the symptoms on a trip last weekend, I checked the connector as indicated in this thread and found the ground wire fried in the 24 pin.

 

[David P]

The final solution (I think). After having the dealer in 2011 install a ground jumper at the bike side of the 24 pin connector (see post # 45) I thought that my electrical problem was solved. Not so fast: I was stuck on the side of the road with the exact same symptoms last Thursday evening after a long, hot, stop-and-go commute. Waited for the bike to cool didn't help, the only way to clear the fault was to disconnect the ground side of the battery. I got a tow home and then spent the next three days doing electrical troubleshooting.

Checking for DC power at various points yielded inconclusive results: power seemed to be everywhere at varying voltages with no apparent source. I did not find any problems with the 24 pin connector as seen in the previous post. The problem did go away when I disconnected the 24 pin connector though. Running a temporary ground to the left headlight ground wire cleared the problem. Subsequent inspection of the fairing ground wire system found the issue: the yellow ground terminal block in the upper right hand corner of the fairing had a burned and high resistance ground wire terminal (kOhm level). I cut back the OEM green ground wire at the block and soldered a thicker wire onto the now-empty terminal. I ran this wire back to the main frame and connected it to the chassis with a ring terminal. With a better ground connection to the fairing electrical circuit, the problem seems to be solved. Pictures of my repair and the fault included.

My conclusion: the green ground wire from the fairing terminal block to the 24 pin connector is undersized and cannot handle all of the current returning from the fairing electrical loads, especially when the bike and wiring are hot. At some point, either the 24 pin connector or the yellow block connector, the wire overheats and opens. With an open ground circuit (or dramatically increased ground resistance) voltage from the fairing finds various other paths back to the negative terminal, causing odd symptoms. A better fairing ground connection is needed.

 

[Al Gully]

The final solution (I think). After having the dealer in 2011 install a ground jumper at the bike side of the 24 pin connector (see post # 45)

This is the 14 pin (Ground Cap) plastic connector that brings all the ground wires together behind the right headlight. I had one of the connections in there that melted part of the 14 pin ground cap just like yours.
I cut and removed all of the ground wires at the ground cap and put eyelets on the wires, then used 2 brass bolts to join all the eyelets together.
There is a write up on here about attaching the eyelets, can't seem to find it.
Also routed a larger green wire to the bike frame from this bolted eyelet connection just like you.
I did this in 2011 and I have never have had this problem since I did this.
Best of luck with your fix.

 

[David P]

Al, I didn't feel like cutting 14 wires and attaching ring terminals to all of them. There isn't much clearance or extra wire length up there. I'll keep an eye on the connector looking for overheating. With the right middle cowl removed it's easy to see.

 

[Al Gully]

Al, I didn't feel like cutting 14 wires and attaching ring terminals to all of them. There isn't much clearance or extra wire length up there.

I agree that there was not much wire to work with putting on 14 ring terminals on. I did take photos of my installation, but for the life of me, can't find them.
I attached 7 wires to one brass bolt and 7 wires to another brass bolt, then used a larger gauge wire with ring terminals to join both bolts together . Then ran wire down to the frame like you did. Wrapped the bolts/ring terminals in black tape.

Wow, Post #64 looks nasty at the 24 pin connector down beside the left middle cowl. Mine looked ok the last time I checked it. I'm going to bypass that ground wire in the 24 pin connection the next time I take the left middle cowl off.

 

[Pete in PA]

Got in this late... We all upgrade our headlight bulbs from 45 to 55/60 watts. We never worry about the GROUND being able to handle the extra load.

I just put mine back together. Wish I would have checked those connectors, especially that yellow 24 pin ground. Is it just me or is that a ridiculous way to handle grounding?

 

[Aussie Ross]

Recently the bike shut down whilst on a ride. It started again after a minute or so. Later, I took it out for a test run and the same happened again when I tried to adjust the screen height. So I figured it was an electrical problem. I immediately perused the forum and it didn't take long to find a bunch of members describing the same problem with exactly the same symptoms. The photographs on the forum gave me something to look for on the bike, so I stripped down the tupperware and found that the 24 pin connector was fried at pin 24. The 14 pin connector was unmarked. I installed an earth wire jumper on the green wire below the connector, and ran in across to the frame. I attempted to start the bike but it still displayed all the same fault symptoms that I started with. The bike would not start. I inspected the 24 pin connector and decided that the male and female pins at no. 24 were too severely fried to conduct any current. So I installed another jumper wire fon the green wire above the connector and ran it across to the frame. That way, I isolated the connection point within the connector, and gave a direct earth to wire 24 on both sides of the connector. I then attempted to start the bike, and she fired up straight away. The next day I took the bike for a 350km test run and it performed faultlessly. Job done!
Thanks guys for the earlier posts that took me straight to the problem.

 

[Indian Express]

I experienced this on the way back from LobsterSTOC. We were at our last fuel stop, filled up the bike, started the bike and moved it into the parking lot. After 15 minute break the bike would not start and the lights stayed on when the key was turned off. I had to unload the bike to access the battery to disconnect the ground side. After making several attempts and even trying to jump it off I went down to a close by Auto Zone and bought a similar size battery hoping there was some abnormality in my battery. I kept the original for testing later. With the AZ battery in the bike started! I left th bike running the entire time while putting it back together and rode her on home. Yesterday the I started the bike several times with no problems. I had the battery tested and they said it is fine, putting out 240 amps under like load. I'm going to hook up the original battery and all my farkels to see if it will start. My guess is I have a short issue and probably need to check the yellow 24 pin connector. We sat in long lines at the Canadian/US border crossings and even though it turned the bike off several times I heard the fan cycling more than usual while the bike was running. Could have over heated a connection?
I'll report back when I have time to tear into it.

 

[st1300r]

Re: Wow, Four Months And Still It Dies!

IE I don't think the bike sitting caused your issue although it might have exposed it.
Check the 24 pin connector that mounts inside the left large cowling. It's sounds like it could be the ground pin corroding causing a high resistance = (heat).
Either the pin to socket connection or the crimp side where the wire enters the connector. Pictures in this thread showing severe damage over time.

The battery isn't something that would cause the lights to stay on.

 

[Byron]

I must admit I haven't read this whole thread so this is more a stab in the dark as to the cause of the problem. The lights are triggered when the key is turned on, a relay activates and supplies the power. When the key is turned off the relay should be de-activated and the lights would go off. So what would happen if the relay wouldn't release when the key is turned off? If the contacts in the relay lock together power would continue to the headlights and thus not shut off. Has anyone tried switching the high and low beam relay to see if the problem still exists?

 

[woodybelle]

I believe the relays are powered by the ignition so even if the points stick the key will shut off the lights. The problem that happens with the bad ground wire terminal is that the path of least resistance to ground is now through the bulb filaments.

 

[David P]

Bad ground connections will cause the current to find another way back to the negative side of the battery. Just because the schematic indicates a power line doesn't mean that current has to flow in the correct direction. Check the ground wire system.

 

[Byron]

I believe the relays are powered by the ignition so even if the points stick the key will shut off the lights. The problem that happens with the bad ground wire terminal is that the path of least resistance to ground is now through the bulb filaments.

You could be correct in this case. When I wire relays into a system I use low voltage trigger circuits to activate the relay, in this case the ignition switch. I then have high power leads that supply the power and ground for the device to be run. In my scenario when the relay is triggered the points close and supply power to the device. When the relay is inactivated the points open and the device shuts off. However, if the points freeze together the device will not turn off which is what is happening with the headlight.

If it is the relay switching the hi and low relays may resolve the issue and indicate the one relay is bad and needs to be replaced. I don't believe Honda uses higher priced sealed relays so they can get contaminated or corroded inside and this could be stopping the contacts from breaking contact.

Just a thought.

 

[David P]

It might not be a failed relay. Relays take less voltage and current to hold them energized than to initially energize them. Once energized (closed) the relay might only need 6-7 Vdc to stay energized. This lower voltage might be available via a secondary ground path.

 

[Indian Express]

Finally getting the time to work on this. Will let you know how we progress.

 

[Old Glory]

I haven't read all the replies. I had this problem a couple of years ago - turn off the key and the lights stay on. Not good. In my case it was the relay I used with a fuse box. Most of the over the counter relays are not meant for continuous operation. My overheated, melted the plastic cover and distorted the contacts so that the relay stayed on. I went on line and found a Bosch relay meant for continuous use, and carry a spare.

John-

 

[Old Glory]

Oh yeah, why did the fuse box relay affect the head lights? The shorted relay passed the battery voltage back through the ignition switch which turned the relay on. The inside of the relay was really messed up.

John-