Lithium Batteries

[Redback]

From the posts I see it has been sometime now since anyone has given an update on how these new lightweight batteries has worked out. My questions -

1. Do they live up to expectations over prelonged periods - like 2 to 3 years+ at least which is what I get from my normal lead/acid.
2. Are they affected by heat in any way over the normal battery ? Cold being a problem for some perhaps.
3. The prices rise dramatically depending on the amp hour of these units which is expected - but the differences are dramtic at say 30amp/hour where they are up over AUS$400 ... surely this is just highway robbery ?
4. Usually the higher the amp/hr the 'stronger' the battery and can give longer life etc. What amp/hr size is recommended for the ST1300 to cover a good long life and retained charge over longer periods ?
5. It is claimed that these batteries can retain their full charge for up to 12 months without needing recharge or trickle charging - that is the bike is not in use - is this so ?

 

[T_C]

From the posts I see it has been sometime now since anyone has given an update on how these new lightweight batteries has worked out. My questions -

1. Do they live up to expectations over prelonged periods - like 2 to 3 years+ at least which is what I get from my normal lead/acid.

Can't vouch for sure in a bike starter use, but I have built other LiFe batteries that are still in use, still have capacity 3+ years. I have some LiIons that are 10+ years old and still have over half their original capacity.

2. Are they affected by heat in any way over the normal battery ? Cold being a problem for some perhaps.

Heat will not be a problem unless you are living in a seriously hot place or using a really short exhaust and upturned exhaust on your ST. Cold, well, there are ways around that. Chemical reactions slow down in cold. Watch the video.

3. The prices rise dramatically depending on the amp hour of these units which is expected - but the differences are dramtic at say 30amp/hour where they are up over AUS$400 ... surely this is just highway robbery ?

Yep, the prices they are charging fo Lithium batteries for bikes are robbery. Most you can possibly get into a stock ST location is 20 amp/hr. unless someone has increased the power density. I would not recommend you try to stuff it in. BTDT! I think th ebiggest of the pre-made batteries for sale right now is 8 amp/hr

4. Usually the higher the amp/hr the 'stronger' the battery and can give longer life etc. What amp/hr size is recommended for the ST1300 to cover a good long life and retained charge over longer periods ?

Strength as you are defining it here is a measure and use in the world of lead-acid. LiFe is a new critter. As far as size, depends on personal use. No one specifically recommends an amp/hr size as to start a bike you only need 120 amps for 5 seconds. After that it's just capacity for accessories when the bike is not running.

5. It is claimed that these batteries can retain their full charge for up to 12 months without needing recharge or trickle charging - that is the bike is not in use - is this so ?

How much is your bike drawing when the engine is off? If the battery is disconnected it will retain some power for a full year.

LiFe are going to be making changes to the way batteries are seen and used. Once the car makers start looking at them for automobiles, production will ramp up and prices will fall. But most people are still trying to do a direct replacement and use new technology in old systems. This technology requires some new thought and re-training old engineers to take advantage of all it's capabilities.

Sorry, can't give any specific recommendations, I personally say build your own. The ones being offered for sale are under-engineered over-priced.

 

[RaYzerman]

On a recent trip to NC and back, my buddy's Shorai wouldn't start the bike at anything below 40 F (had this on three mornings). OK if you can park it with their charger plugged in.... we tried the "warm up with key on", etc. unsuccessfully, and we ended up giving it a quick charge with my bike. Considering the investment in battery + charger, I see no compelling reason to switch from an AGM battery, at least in the climate conditions I mostly see.

 

[Redback]

Thanks for all that good feedback. Temperature ranges in Brisbane are from 40F to 95F or more (5 to 35 Celcius). So unless I travel south to the snow field areas the temps rarely go below the 32F freezing levels. I have all stock standard exhaust and components but I am one of those who suffer a fair bit of heat coming off the exhaust air discharge areas particularly in summer - never will understand why Honda haven't put a bit more thought into the air ducting to direct that air downwards and/or away from the rider - such a simple bit of re-engineering yet they have ignored many ST owners pleas on this over years. I would think that given the battery position it gets pretty hot (more than the ambient air temp) around the battery as a result.

I travel in my business so my bikes can sit for up to 4 to 8 weeks without being ridden. Can't be bothered disconnecting batteries and usually I just connect my trickle charges when I get home which are all wired in permanantly anyway so I just clip the connectors on. Be nice if I could just jump on and not wait several hours before I can go for a spin.

Looking at the site - http://www.nicecycle.com/Shorai-Motorcycle-Battery-p/lfx07l2-bs12.htm I see that the Shorai models start at an LFX07L2-BS12: Shorai Lithium Ultra Low Weight Powersports Battery 7Ah 12V model at $99.95 up to an LFX36A3-BS12: Shorai Lithium Ultra Low Weight Powersports Battery 36Ah 12V at $349.95 - presumabaly the 07 in the code "LFX07L2" dictates the amp hour rating. Of course by the time you add freight assuming someone will ship (not an item international shipping agents want to carry) or buy through the 'middle-men' in Australia, the price for the top of the line is well over $400. So for that price I can buy two and maybe three standard batteries which would see me through for many years. So YES it will be good when the auto industry starts putting these in production cars and the price comes down.

They also say that you can use your existing lead/acid chargers to recharge these babies. So it seems that progress has been made in both compatability and in terms of raising the output amperage quite considerably. In summary so far I can only see the weight advantage using this new technology and perhaps they mainatin their full charge for long periods of non-use - but that isn't confirmed it seems.

 

[Ross Smith]

On a recent trip to NC and back, my buddy's Shorai wouldn't start the bike at anything below 40 F (had this on three mornings). OK if you can park it with their charger plugged in.... we tried the "warm up with key on", etc. unsuccessfully, and we ended up giving it a quick charge with my bike. Considering the investment in battery + charger, I see no compelling reason to switch from an AGM battery, at least in the climate conditions I mostly see.

Well Ray, all I can say is that your buddy needs to seriously investigate other problems with his bike that may be the real source of the starting problem. Or he'd damaged his Shorai somehow.

I'm living up in Northern Ontario now, (Elliot Lake) and can easily start my 1100 at -10C with my 18 Amp/hr equiv Shorai. There's 20W50 Castrol in the crank. It's starts effortlessly at that temperature and I DO mean effortlessly. I also routinely drive the bike into town, (lately at temps around +4 to +7)from where I live rurally and stop at Tim's, sitting in the parking lot, having a couple of cigars that I light from my cigarette lighter, (8 amps on each try for 15 seconds) while listening to the radio system I built into the bike. It's a 40watt amplifier that draws a steady 2+ amps off the battery while operating. I've sat there sometimes for over an hour, (like I used to do in Milton) doing that. The bike has never failed to start after being drained during that time. My old Yuasa? Iffy, at best if used the same way. I once got caught in Campbellville at the Icehouse because I sat too long. I was able to push start the bike down the driveway, fortunately.

Because my radio system draws a steady 65ma when off I have a 13.4 volt regulated charger / tender I built that keeps the Shorai safe from depletion. You do need to keep a higher minimal voltage in the Shorai. If a tender is not your thing, then you need to remove the battery to prevent slow drainage. Can't say from experience how long it'll hold a charge, but will tell everyone who cares to read this that this battery will hold a full charge for 4 months, easily. It was charged to 13.4 volts. 4 months later it was 13.3.

I've contributed a couple of posts in the past on Shorai. Here in Canada you can get a Shorai 18 Amp/hr equiv battery for $186 Cdn from our Ontario dealer. A Yuasa is around $124. If you investigate Shorai's website you'll read that these batteries were designed specifically to withstand extreme heat. I bought the battery early this year so can't speak for its longevity... yet, but if what Shorai says is true one should be able to get 12 years easily out of it. That's great value for the cost. The battery is non-toxic. No core charges or disposal issues to deal with.

IMHO opinion, you get what you pay for. I've not exaggerated any of the above. I'm very pleased with this battery so far. In fact, if it holds up for even 5 years I'll never go back to lead / acid again.

Canadian Dealer for Ontario:
Full Throttle Motorsports
226 Spencer Avenue
Thornton, Ontario, L0L 2N0 Attn: Doug Larmour
info@ftmracing.ca
(705)-796-5294


Ross

 

[spikeridgway]

So far, at least, I would agree with Ross. I had a Yuasa that didn't seem to be cranking with expected gusto and replaced it with a Shorai in my ST1300 . . . curing the problem. I think the 40 degree nonstarter has a high impedence issue somewhere else that is brought on by cold shrinkage . . . either that or a mysterious current drain caused by the same thing. I'm in PA's icebox in the summer (Allegheny Highlands) and the battery doesn't seem to recognize temperature. It's in the basement over this winter (without a tender), so I will report again.