Looking for Used RT - Are 2010 Upgrades Worth It?

[cason621]

Hi, all - first time posting in the BMW section...

I'm looking to buy my first 1200RT - used. I figured I'd pick up a 2007-2009 for $9K -$11K. However, I read that there were engine and other upgrades starting in 2010, but obviously those bikes are a lot more expensive ($15K-$17K). Does anyone have an opinion whether the features introduced in 2010 are worth it, or would I be just fine with an older model? Thanks.

Mike

 

[LetErBuck]

For the same money you could buy a NEW Yamaha FJR 1300. Alot of the same goodies. Just my .02.

 

[Bug Dr.]

I have a 2012 RT I'm thinking about selling but it will be more than $11k. Don't know if the new motor made that much difference. The second generation ESA is an improvement. PM me if you want more info.
Mike

 

[charliebrown]

I have an '09 RT. Didn't think there was enough "new" in the '10 to upgrade unless someone owned a very high mileage earlier model.

 

[dohboy]

My wife has a 2005 RT that I liked but was never really carzy about. I bought a 2011 RT that I just loved. I crashed it and it's gone but when I ride my wife's RT now it it feals like the 2011 did. If I were to buy another RT I would buy the updated model. I am back on the ST now.

 

[HeliMark]

I have a '12 1200RT that I bought new. If I was in the market for a good used one, I would be looking for the '08-09. Best bang for the buck if you want the 1200RT. Yes the DOHC is smoother and feels a little more torque, and the new ESAII is nicer, but not a big enough difference for the money. Also depends on what looks good for you (Okay, Triumph seems to like the styling...).

Mark

 

[cason621]

Thank you for your responses. I have an 05 ST1300 but have not been able to get comfortable on it for long distances, despite various seats, risers, foot pegs, windscreens, etc. I remember not having much fatigue when riding an 07 RT a couple of years ago. I'm renting a 2010 RT on Wed for a long distance test ride and to compare with the 07.

Mike

 

[ShaftyNZ]

Report back on how the test goes

 

[Darth rider]

I will just be happy when spring comes here so I CAN ride!

 

[pepollock]

The 2010-2013 Boxer motors are the double-overhead cam version. Earlier motors had the "cam under head" design with short pushrods. Did the re-design make a difference. Definitely, but how many dollars-worth better is up to you. The newer design is smoother and a little bit more powerful by a few HP but it feels like more. Early in the 2011 run BMW switched from its "fuel strip" gasoline level sensor to a normal float system. The fuel strip was, and still is, problematic and some lucky owners have had several replaced under warranty. Otherwise they are excellent machines. Check the BMWMOA (BMWMotorcycle Owners of America) website. Prices for used bikes tend to be high there but you'll get the idea.

Or wait for the 2014 (?) RTs with the new water cooled boxer motors. What's next? Water cooled Electra Glides?

pete

 

[HeliMark]

Honda, do you see a trend here??? Only one bike company not continuously updating their ST's.

Mark

 

[Bug Dr.]

Honda, do you see a trend here??? Only one bike company not continuously updating their ST's.

Mark

No, apparently not.
Mike

 

[pepollock]

"Honda, do you see a trend here." Since the ST13 hit the US in 2003 there have been no significant changes/upgrades. Now, I know it's a great machine, but seriously...? BMW has been continually making incremental and major changes to their boxer line (R1100 - R1200RT, etc.) and has introduced a water-cooled version that will likely be in the RT for 2014. BMW also brought us the K1600GT/GTL, totally new and 6-cylinders, too! We know about the FJR and Concours changes over the years, and the well-received Triumph Trophy.

I'm sure Honda has seen the trend but has chosen to concentrate on smaller, more all-around bikes - for the time being. I'm also sure they have carefully counted the beans and have found their ever-shrinking slice of the sport-tourer pie to be a money loser.

For the record, I gave up waiting and traded my '03 ST for a '11 BMW R1200RT and have not regretted it.

pete

 

[OttawaST]

Thank you for your responses. I have an 05 ST1300 but have not been able to get comfortable on it for long distances, despite various seats, risers, foot pegs, windscreens, etc. I remember not having much fatigue when riding an 07 RT a couple of years ago. I'm renting a 2010 RT on Wed for a long distance test ride and to compare with the 07.

Mike

I had the same problem with my '07 ST so I sold it and picked up a slightly used 2010 RT. I find the ergos much better on the RT and the lighter weight and lack of engine heat are a bonus but I have to say I do miss that silky smooth Honda engine. The one thing both bikes have in common....the lousy stock seats!

 

[dduelin]

I'm sure Honda has seen the trend but has chosen to concentrate on smaller, more all-around bikes - for the time being. I'm also sure they have carefully counted the beans and have found their ever-shrinking slice of the sport-tourer pie to be a money loser.

pete

I agree. I think (FWIW) Honda has looked at the tiny and shrinking global market for sport touring bikes for 22 years and concludes that it is not worth the considerable R & D cost plus the other expenses associated to bring a new ST to the USA market as well as the world market unless the product has a very long life cycle. Compared to all the bikes they do sell STs are a drop in a bucket. That's bad for us if we want a new Honda sport tourer but as a free market believer I also believe that Honda makes decisions based on ROI and not on that a few thousand of us want a new ST. They did bring out the Crosstourer and Crossrunner in the last year because, unlike the market for sport touring bikes, adventure bikes are where sales are increasing and manufacturers want some of those GS sales. I think it is accurate to point out that Honda sold 3.1 million units (motorcycles and ATVs) last year reported (2011) and BMW sold about 100,000 give or take a few thousand. In the US the numbers are about 190,000 Honda motorcycles and 13,000 BMWs. Honda is a mass merchandiser and BMW is a niche builder. Again, bad for Honda ST lovers and good for BMW buyers (and lovers too). We may never see another new Honda sport touring bike of conventional design and layout if it can only sell in the tens of thousands of units worldwide. I hope I am wrong.

I also think that BMW autos subsidize the bike side to some degree and Honda does not or did not have to do this therefore class leading or flagship bikes are less important now to Honda than to BMW. BMW motorcycle has been on the ropes two or three times since 1970 if you know their history and decision was made each time to retain the two wheel marque as integral to the overall brand image. Please don't take that as a negative, simply an observation and if true, a reason why Honda is not willing to spend money on an ST that would take years of sales to recoup investment. I think that is a mistake but Honda does sell a lot of motorcycles, just not ones we want.

 

[ChucksKLRST]

I agree. I think (FWIW) Honda has looked at the tiny and shrinking global market for sport touring bikes for 22 years and concludes that it is not worth the considerable R & D cost plus the other expenses associated to bring a new ST to the USA market as well as the world market unless the product has a very long life cycle. Compared to all the bikes they do sell STs are a drop in a bucket. That's bad for us if we want a new Honda sport tourer but as a free market believer I also believe that Honda makes decisions based on ROI and not on that a few thousand of us want a new ST. They did bring out the Crosstourer and Crossrunner in the last year because,

.

Not into the US. But I am waiting.

 

[cason621]

Back from my all-day test ride of the 2010 RT. For those of you from So Cal, I went from the LAX area to Julian in northern San Diego county, returning via Oceanside and the coast. In other words, a 350-mile apple pie run. Weather was beautiful, clear, snow in the mountains, temps around 50-55. A good test covering many terrains.

I liked the 2010 a lot. The engine was smooth and relatively quiet. I don't know if it felt more powerful - just more refined. Wind protection was good with the stock shield - although I'd get a slightly bigger aftermarket one (I'm 6-2). And the RT is so light and maneuverable in the curves. I have little experience with ESA, so I can't really comment on whether ESA 2 is better. Count me in as preferring the single turn signal switch on the left, since that's what I'm used to on my Japanese bikes. Most importantly, the RT's ergonomics are so much better than the ST1300 for me. I had some minor fatigue, but nothing like the squirming after 30 minutes on the ST. The handlebars are wider and I sit more upright, reducing strain between my shoulder blades. Bottom line - the ST is history. I may still go for a 2008-09 at the right price, but I'm tempted to go newer. Best news - my wife is OK with whatever I decide . We'll keep my V-Star 1300 tourer for 2-up riding.

P.S. the dealer let us try out the K1600GTL for about 30 minutes today. Pretty nice. The engine sounds like a Porsche. Oh well, something to wish for.

Mike