MC Manufacturing

[Oldbikefixr]

yeah, I was thinking the same thing yesterday. But, I remember one result of the tariff was the 750s became 700s for a few years because the tariff only applied to 700cc and larger (the actual displacement was in the 690s usually). I was never convinced the Reagan tariff amounted to anything anyway, since the mantra back then was "I'd rather eat worms than ride a rice burner" so it wasn't like there was any significant competition between the brands in the first place. And that tariff only lasted a few years. I had a 1986 FZ750 that I thought was pre-tariff because they went to FZ700 a little later, but maybe it just took a couple years to change the displacement after the tariff was enacted.

I remember that well and it made a lasting impression on me relative to Japanese manufacturing capability.....especially Honda. All their bikes over 700cc were redesigned (engine changes) to 700cc or slightly below. The larger bikes such as the GL's were moved to the US. Net result was that Honda paid none of these 'save Harley' taxes. All these technical and logistics changes took place in under a year, if I'm remembering correctly.

Pre 1982, Harley was overpriced junk and customers were treated accordingly by dealerships. On Harley's side, under new management, HD fixed their management and design problems and regained their image....and sales. There were two industrial tales of note during this period.

 

[drbuzzard]

I remember that well and it made a lasting impression on me relative to Japanese manufacturing capability.....especially Honda. All their bikes over 700cc were redesigned (engine changes) to 700cc or slightly below. The larger bikes such as the GL's were moved to the US. Net result was that Honda paid none of these 'save Harley' taxes. All these technical and logistics changes took place in under a year, if I'm remembering correctly.

Pre 1982, Harley was overpriced junk and customers were treated accordingly by dealerships. On Harley's side, under new management, HD fixed their management and design problems and regained their image....and sales. There were two industrial tales of note during this period.

Goldwing production was moved to ohio in 1980 not because of the tariff

 

[Earl43P]

Reading comprehension owns some of you.

Harley is moving production TO EUROPE of their models THAT WILL BE SOLD IN EUROPE.
That's to overcome the tariff that EU put on US-made Harley motorcycles.

Same scenario for the Asian market.

So Harleys sold in the US market WILL STILL BE MADE HERE. Since the demand is low, they are closing a plant.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-harley-davidson-tariffs/harley-davidson-says-will-not-raise-prices-to-cover-tariff-costs-idUSKBN1JL185

Read this article, they've been manufacturing Harleys for the overseas markets for years.
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/26/623451430/union-responds-to-harley-davidson-decision-to-move-some-work-overseas

 

[Bush]

Joe should be along shortly to nip the politics in the bud, but my understanding is America has generally preferred open markets and for that reason avoided tariffs as much as possible. Economists claim they suppress trade, which seems to make sense to me, if everybody raises prices through tariffs, less goods are purchased.

EXACTLY - free trade means no tariffs. Trump's reasoning behind his tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum is that our goods are a threat to US national security. Let's see what happens now, when Canada imposes a whole range of targeted tariffs on US goods, starting on July 1st. This move by Trump is hurting everyone across all borders and US workers too.

 

[dwalby]

1st Harley got screwed when the US pulled out of TPP, which would have removed the Asian tariffs that Harley is now avoiding by building the Thailand plant. Asia is a fast-growing market for them, so its important to their business.
then Harley got screwed again by the steel/aluminum tariffs on their imported raw materials.
now Harley got screwed the third time by the EU counter-tariffs in response to the steel/aluminum tariffs.

edit: removed references to Trump

 

[KCJones]

1st he screwed Harley by pulling out of TPP, which would have removed the Asian tariffs that Harley is now avoiding by building the Thailand plant. Asia is a fast-growing market for them, so its important to their business.
then he screwed Harley again by imposing the steel/aluminum tariffs on their imported raw materials.
now Harley got screwed the third time by the EU counter-tariffs in response to the steel/aluminum tariffs.

And through all of this he's been proudly proclaiming how much he's done to help Harley, because he loves helping American businesses.

I just posted a response... And now I'm editing it to be a non-response.

Can we please leave the politics to political discussion groups? I like that we talk motorcycles here. Yes, since we're discussing Harley it's "motorcycle-related"... But c'mon.

 

[Bush]

Can we please leave the politics to political discussion groups?

I would like to see a sub forum here, just for such discussion - kept civil of course - because we do have a group of like minded individuals here, at least in the sense that we all ride bikes. That gives us some common ground in at least one small way and discussion of such topics is helpful to spread awareness of many aspects of the topic that one might otherwise not come across. I really feel too many people in the world are "living in a cave" when it comes to being informed on subjects of importance and by having such discussions in a group like this, some may come across ideas that they would never hear, because they don't bother to hear it anywhere else.

 

[dwalby]

I'm not interested in discussing politics either, but since the topic was Harley moving additional production overseas, and it was a direct result of the recent tariffs and trade policies, I don't know how to discuss it without mentioning the tariffs. I don't think its much of a political statement that Harley got screwed in the process, its just a simple fact, as their business moves are indicating.

 

[drrod]

Polaris is thinking about moving as well.

https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2018-06-29/another-motorcycle-maker-considers-moving-output-overseas

 

[Daboo]

The speed at which the HD announcement was made indicates to me that the company was thinking about it for months already. Businesses don't do that kind of major change to their operations without a lot of analysis.

My old employer, Boeing, builds parts for the planes around the world in many countries. The foreign governments are unlikely to impose severe tarrifs and taxes on them, simply because Boeing is a major employer of their people. And recently, Boeing was moving a lot of their workforce out of Puget Sound...to lower the cost of labor for them. HD and Polaris are just following the same idea that has been going on for decades.

Chris

 

[caldercay]

Hidden agenda? I agree with this article - maybe much of the move is because of lagging sales in the US, as the newest generation isnt interested in HD offerings (and even this old generation person is not interested in an expensive, loud, slow, vibrating, unreliable bike)

http://www.thedrive.com/opinion/12489/analysts-are-wrong-about-why-millenials-arent-buying-harleys

 

[Daboo]

I met a nice HD rider and his wife at the local ferry dock. We had some good conversation in the time we waited for the ferry to arrive and hit it off quite well. When the time came to ride off the ferry when it docked on the other end, he started his HD up. The engine was vibrating extremely bad IMHO. I hollered over to him, that it looked like one of those paint shakers at the local hardware store. His comment back was hilarious. He said that at least he didn't have to look at his tach to see if the engine was running.

Chris

 

[coolbreez1]

Dear Honda; Harley; Hero; Ducati, BMW, Triumph; pls build your manufacturing plants over here; we have cheap labor, low taxes, low regulations, we have low, …. we have cheap... we promise to buy many many units..... we have low.... ok , never mind;

[video=youtube;vB-0VPOFwac]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB-0VPOFwac[/video]