Motorcycle Riders - You're Leaning the Wrong Way
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He is... and MCrider has an excellent response video.
For me, it is a matter of speed. The slower you are going, the better counterbalance works, the faster you are going, the more weight transfer helps.
It isn't one or the other, it is situationally important to know both!
For me, it is a matter of speed. The slower you are going, the better counterbalance works, the faster you are going, the more weight transfer helps.
It isn't one or the other, it is situationally important to know both!
That was really interesting, thanks for posting!
So you mean we gotta use common sense and THINK about what we're doing?
Sheesh, how come every complex question has to be answered with "it depends".
so the lawyers can say "we didn't tell you to do that"
sky.high
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Having to frequently switch between road riding technique and dirt riding technique is challenging, in my case the more dirt riding I do the more my road riding degrades, I'm sure its due to the opposing techniques required, don't think I'll be applying my dirt riding body positions to road riding any time soon though
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If these were articles in newspapers (I remember those) I'd think "where's the story". This tread kind of reads as though there's some controversy among the videos. It looked to me that Ryan was describing three different techniques for riding and all were applicable for a given speed or range of speeds.
I didn't get the impression Ryan advocated fast riding on the street that would require any kind of leaning. MCrider's "response" video seems to infer that Ryan should have mentioned "kids, leaning is not street riding". Good info but I think he adopted a tone that wasn't necessary.
I didn't get the impression Ryan advocated fast riding on the street that would require any kind of leaning. MCrider's "response" video seems to infer that Ryan should have mentioned "kids, leaning is not street riding". Good info but I think he adopted a tone that wasn't necessary.
wjbertrand
Ventura Highway
I think leaning off to the inside is a good technique to know. While I agree that doing it constantly on the street because you're actually at the limit all the time is asking for trouble, we all occasionally misread a corner. If you're surprised by a decreasing radius (assuming you are not at the limit already) or a car coming round part way into your lane, you can buy yourself a few more degrees of lean angle if your body position is prepared to lean her over a little further. That can be the difference between making the corner or not. For those of us riding touring and sport touring bikes without abundant clearance, extra ground clearance for such a case can be preserved by positioning your weight further inward ahead of time.
Counter leaning is useful mostly at lower speeds, tight quarters or low friction conditions. If you ever take Lee Parks' Total Control training, he instructs how and when to use each technique.
Counter leaning is useful mostly at lower speeds, tight quarters or low friction conditions. If you ever take Lee Parks' Total Control training, he instructs how and when to use each technique.
JRman
"Quando omni flunkus moritati" - Possum Lodge
I can relate to this greatly...as can my 6 month recovery from a sprained ankle and torn ligaments in Death Valley. The day was epic - a bunch of guys ripping along on our XT250 and DRZ's - Saline Valley, Lippencott Mine Road, The Racetrack, Teakettle Junction and a bunch of abandoned mines in between - great riding and not a care in the world. The long day started at Panamint Springs and getting up over 7000 feet at Hunter Mountain...things got cold, very cold! Not sure of the "Murican" temps, but I know for the rest of the world it was 23C in Panamint and felt damn close to zero at Hunter Mtn - there was certainly a good amount of snow that didn't look like it was going anywhere. From a vantage point near the top of the mountain I could see our temporary home and visualized the food, the beer, and most importantly the warmth that awaited us. This is when I came down with a bad case of "barnitis" as the affliction is known - most common to cows at feeding time as they race for the barn. I came into sweeping turn, downhill, on gravel, and came to realize I was going a bit hot - too hot to apply the brake which would have righted me and shot me into the cacti, so I did what my years of road riding said.....countersteer and lean into the turn.....and wham, down I went. In retrospect - the post mortum clearly indicates I was tired, it was the end of the day, and I was riding too fast for my condition and skill. The same rider earlier in the day (me) would have leaned out of the turn, applied the throttle and put down a leg for good measure....so yeah, complex problems require complex solutions - and my brain was simply not computing by that time of the day....
Interesting in that he didn't even remotely try to sell you anything at all. I like this guy.
Sadlsor
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Some people are primarily visual. That's their learning style.
A very successful and wise man I know once told me, "I can't even talk without a whiteboard."
A very successful and wise man I know once told me, "I can't even talk without a whiteboard."
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He, Motojitsu, Motorman Palladino, and others probably, have made response videos:
What Ryan said doesn't seem controversial to me, but it looks like it is to others.
I'm supposing my style is visual/instinctive. Absorb and assess road conditions ahead, aside and behind at a quick glance, because a split second later those may change. Same with a scan of your instruments. Similar with locating all the controls...signal switch, horn, dim switch, shift lever, brake pedal...if you have to look for them or feel around for them, you need more practice. If you have to think/calculate your next move, you're likely road food at some point.
+1 Sometimes I see responses that are the equivalent of saying "you forgot about holding your pinkie finger out when holding the cup" or "NO, the milk goes in before the tea".
At common road speeds, it doesn't really matter if you lean in or sit up or stay neutral. The best argument for sitting up in the turn is line of sight.
I find on the ST, because it's such a big, fat, pig, that steering is much, much, more responsive if I bring my ass crack to the corner of the seat it preparation for a spirited turn. That probably has a lot to do with my choice of tires and the bar risers. To combat that (I hope), I have brought my fork legs up about a centimeter in the triples. We'll see how it works at ArkanSTOC.
I find on the ST, because it's such a big, fat, pig, that steering is much, much, more responsive if I bring my ass crack to the corner of the seat it preparation for a spirited turn. That probably has a lot to do with my choice of tires and the bar risers. To combat that (I hope), I have brought my fork legs up about a centimeter in the triples. We'll see how it works at ArkanSTOC.
Hello everyone,
This is interesting. I like to ride fast in the twisties. and I can relate riding a motorcycle to Downhill Skiing. You antesipate the turn and move your body into the turn first and then pull the motorcycle over to match up with your body position. Sometimes the g forces are so strong that I can feel the motorcycle drifting sideways a bit when I'm into the turn. Regards, Dave
This is interesting. I like to ride fast in the twisties. and I can relate riding a motorcycle to Downhill Skiing. You antesipate the turn and move your body into the turn first and then pull the motorcycle over to match up with your body position. Sometimes the g forces are so strong that I can feel the motorcycle drifting sideways a bit when I'm into the turn. Regards, Dave
Sounds like being married
Riding sport bikes for many years i learned pretty quickly (while trying to keep up) that for cornering i lean into the corner and steer out of the corner. Seems wrong at first goes against logic in my puny brain. But as I experimented with this it became very apparent that my cornering became effortless. At low speeds just a suttle or slight turn opposite the corner puts the bike into the proper lean body and head follow effortless cornering. High speeds obviously more aggressive however id never call this an aggressive action. Always suttle. Have applied this technique to every bike I've ridden( on road of course) presently on a 06 dyna lowrider but aggressively searching for a st1300.
Cheers and rubberside down!
Cheers and rubberside down!