My Linked Brakes

[Sadlsor]

Probably should take a course.

Besides all that, it's FUN!
At least it is, if your coach is anything like ME.

 

[Anna'sDad]

I replaced the ST1300 a few years back with a GL1800 (now overdue for replacement), which is admittedly a poor explanation for my infrequent visits to ST-Owners.com.

I recently received a handful of emails regarding difficulty connecting to my drawings stored on Google Drive. Apparently Google had changed the format of shared links, and I missed the announcement.

I have just completed the task of updating the links to my drawings, as listed in the document below. I will update individual links to a drawing as I encounter them, however I probably will not attempt to track down each and every link that has been posted, life is too short for that.

Here's the link to :
Contents of Anna’sDad Motorcycle Drawings in PDF Format

Cheers,
Anna'sDad

 

[Chris09]

I replaced the ST1300 a few years back with a GL1800 (now overdue for replacement), which is admittedly a poor explanation for my infrequent visits to ST-Owners.com.

I recently received a handful of emails regarding difficulty connecting to my drawings stored on Google Drive. Apparently Google had changed the format of shared links, and I missed the announcement.

I have just completed the task of updating the links to my drawings, as listed in the document below. I will update individual links to a drawing as I encounter them, however I probably will not attempt to track down each and every link that has been posted, life is too short for that.

Here's the link to :
Contents of Anna’sDad Motorcycle Drawings in PDF Format

Cheers,
Anna'sDad

Hey thanks, your link worked and your drawings presented more answers than questions, really appreciated

 

[tnman]

The bike is more capable than the rider! While doing training I would curse the LBS but at the end of the day, it was always my fault for applying too much brake in the pattern that would cause the fall. The friction zone (Gray area) is the secret, the less brake the better!

 

[Chris09]

Hey thanks, your link worked and your drawings presented more answers than questions, really appreciated

just wondering if anyone knows if it's possible to save the three drawings from here as PDFs, delay, proportioning and SMC, can read them but can't seem to copy and paste. I'm gonna be staring into these for a while.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

save the three drawings from here as PDFs, delay, proportioning and SMC

Attached.

 

[Chris09]

Attached.

Thanks!!!

 

[Chris09]

I was looking at the SMC drawing after reading a post about the importance of the push rod being able to reposition itself upon release of the brakes.

For everything I like on this bike, I really don't like that little pushrod and boot hanging out in the stormy weather, but it is what it is.

The piston spring must be able to move the piston back completely so that the primary seal moves all the way back across the compensating port, enabling fluid pressure to be relieved back through the compensating port to the vented rear master cylinder.

Along with flushing the brake system annually, I wonder if anyone has used anything externally on the pushrod or around the boot to inhibit corrosion.

I saw someone post using silicone grease maybe to keep the outer part of the pushrod or portion below the boot from deteriorating and wondered if this is a common practice or if there's anything else that could help to keep the boot pliable and the water and water contaminants out.

Replacing one - I guess they're still available - seems to run around $450.00 US

$450 US translates into probably $900 Canadian by the time we do the exchange, taxes and shipping.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

It is no where near $450.00.
BRACKET SUB-ASSY., L. FR., 06454-MCS-R02, $172.80 USD.

I fill the inside of the rubber boot with silicone grease in an effort to help keep moisture out of the SMC internals.
Time will tell if it makes any difference.

 

[Igofar]

I was looking at the SMC drawing after reading a post about the importance of the push rod being able to reposition itself upon release of the brakes.

For everything I like on this bike, I really don't like that little pushrod and boot hanging out in the stormy weather, but it is what it is.

The piston spring must be able to move the piston back completely so that the primary seal moves all the way back across the compensating port, enabling fluid pressure to be relieved back through the compensating port to the vented rear master cylinder.

Along with flushing the brake system annually, I wonder if anyone has used anything externally on the pushrod or around the boot to inhibit corrosion.

I saw someone post using silicone grease maybe to keep the outer part of the pushrod or portion below the boot from deteriorating and wondered if this is a common practice or if there's anything else that could help to keep the boot pliable and the water and water contaminants out.

Replacing one - I guess they're still available - seems to run around $450.00 US

$450 US translates into probably $900 Canadian by the time we do the exchange, taxes and shipping.

BRACKET SUB-ASSY., L. FR.
06454-MCS-R02
Retail Price: $238.01
Your Price: $172.80

Honda 06454-MCS-R02 - BRACKET SUB-ASSY., L. FR. : Ron Ayers

www.ronayers.com

Sounds like the $450.00 quote was from a dealer, as they simply DOUBLE the cost of the parts they sell.
Dealers order stuff from distributors like RONAYERS.COM, etc. then just double the price, and add shipping and tax, then pass the love on to you

 

[OkieRider]

I filled my SMC with JB Weld. So far, no corrosion problems.

 

[jfheath]

I filled my SMC with JB Weld. So far, no corrosion problems.

No brakes ??

Regarding the original question - The SMC has silicone grease applied inside the bore behind the circuit, on the 'ball/socket' coupling and outside under the top hat rubber boot.

IF the SMC is flushed and exercised regularly at each annual fluid change then their should be no issues. Pre-2008 models need the drain hole to be kept clear.

The problem with getting under the boot to add more grease is in ensuring that it is seated properly afterwards. I have not found a way to do this without unscrewing the bracket on the pushrod. I measure it first with a vernier scale (not digital) caliper. If it is not seated properly, it WILL let in water, and there is then nothing to stop it getting into the bore.

If it is seated properly, it is perfectly OK.

See this link.

Article [13] - ST1300 - SMC Boot Fitting - A Cause of Failure ? | ST1300 Articles

The rubber boot on the ST1300 Secondary Master Cylinder is designed to keep water out. Unfortunately, since you cannot see what you are doing when fitting the rubber boot, it is entirely possible that casual maintenance can result in allowing water to be let in. I made reference to this in the...

www.st-owners.com

 

[dduelin]

I think the key to SMC health is flushing and replacing the brake fluid at least as often as recommended. Riding the bike regularly exercises the SMC. I could be wrong but I seem to recall the service manual details the boot being installed dry. Mine was trouble free for many years, 14 or 15 flushes on the 12,000 mile interval. Occasionally during the brake fluid service I carefully pulled the boot back to inspect for corrosion in the space under the boot but it remained free of corrosion.

Something that is easy to do and became a habit for me before the first ride of the day was to give the rear wheel a shove with my foot to check for free movement. The bike on the center stand of course. Trouble with a sticky SMC or rear caliper will not let the wheel rotate 2 to 3 turns with a good shove.

 

[jfheath]

The reason I suggest exercising the SMC is because the amount of movement in normal operation is only a little more than 1mm. It never moves the full length of its stroke. There is a brackish spot in the fluid between the primary and secondary seals, behind where the inlet port allows fresh fluid into the bore. Exercising the SMC when the PCV bleed valve or the rearmost rear caliper bleed valve is open allows the piston to move its full length. This enables both seals to wipe the sides of the bore for its full length, and push old fluid into the flow of new fluid, past the primary seal and to the outlet port.

It may be that doing nothing except flush and bleed does a perfectly adequate job. I just like to make sure things are able to move fully - it gives me a feel for anything that may be happening inside.

I exercise the pistons in their bores when flushing out old fluid with new for the same reason - particularly the lower front pistons and the forward rear pistons - to get rid of old fluid that may be lurking behind them. They are out of the flow of the fluid from the inlet port.

 

[OkieRider]

No brakes ??

De-linked brakes.

 

[MidLife]

No brakes ??

Not sure what Okie did (missed the post if there was one), but if we assume all he did is immobilize the SMC piston, he would still have three pistons on the rear when pushing the pedal. He may even have removed the SMC check valve for faster release when unloading the pedal.

The pedal would still operate the two middles in the front, unless he piped them directly to the front lever master.

 

[OkieRider]

Not sure what Okie did (missed the post if there was one), ...

I removed all the plumbing connecting the front and the back brakes. Then I had fabricated custom coated stainless steel braided brake lines. The rear master cylinder already had a double banjo bolt on it and so I run one line to each of the chambers on the rear caliper. Three piston rear brake.

I purchased a new 5/8 inch master cylinder and used a double banjo bolt to run one line to each front caliper. Each caliper then also has a small jumper line that communicates the two chambers in each front caliper. Six total piston front brakes.

This is just a proof of concept. I can make a much smaller jumper line if I go with hard tubing. I also might use a y behind the nose fairing and run two lines to each front caliper. In any event, it definitely works and I prefer it. Excellent feedback, strong braking power, and no front end lockup worries going down my steep gravel driveway using my rear brake. No SMC failure/rear wheel lockup concerns. No hassling with plastic to bleed brakes. Bleeding brakes is a snap.

 

[MidLife]

This is just a proof of concept. I can make a much smaller jumper line if I go with hard tubing. I also might use a y behind the nose fairing and run two lines to each front caliper. And any event, it definitely works and I prefer it.

At least don't have to worry about the SMC anymore! Bypassing the PCV as well?

 

[Igofar]

What about the delay valve system?
How many working pistons on rear wheel with your routing?

 

[OkieRider]

At least don't have to worry about the SMC anymore! Bypassing the PCV as well?

No reason for it. All the plumbing between front and back is gone. It is now a conventional non-linked braking system.