my trailer build

[Andrew Shadow]

I`m glad you mentioned using only the front brake.

If you habitually use just the front (or rear) brake, in nearly every single instance this is exactly what you will do when faced with no time to think.

I agree completely, whatever a rider considers to be the best braking method, that is the method that they should be using all of the time so that it becomes instinct. However, with respect to the situation presented in this video, I have been in similar situations myself and in my experience I think that you can throw your habitual braking habits out the window in this scenario.

Regardless of what those habits are, good or bad, that is not what most people are going to do in this situation. Instinctive reaction will always be self preservation. In this case that means that, even if both brakes were being used, most people will most likely put their feet down in an attempt to prevent the developing fall. Human instinct is always to protect the head. It is almost impossible to overcome that instinct when there is no time to think and our actions are purely reactionary. This instinct will overcome usual braking habits as self preservation kicks in and always wins. This preservation instinct turns our reaction in to putting our feet down in an attempt to prevent a fall, which is a reaction intended to prevent hitting our head on the ground. So, the foot will come off of the rear brake pedal to place it on the ground in an attempt to prevent the fall, which will result in the bike sliding backwards even more making the situation even worse and almost impossible to control.

This is the same logic that helps to explain why motorcycle accidents involving riders who were not wearing gloves are more likely to result in head and facial injuries than it does for those riders who were wearing gloves.

 

[Yohan]

I don`t imagine anyone can tell what percentage they split between front and back braking . To me the main thing on a road trip is to bring the bike upright and running straight for an emergency stop. It`s a quick reaction and preferable to a slide. One problem with powerful disc brakes is the way the back wheel comes right of the road when stopping quickly . I noticed that when I stopped for a man on a crossing. He was amused by the way the back wheel came up .The Italian connected brakes on Moto Guzzis probably eliminated any chance to use your own senses to judge the feel of the brakes .
But on a steep hill with a trailer we still need to know if he applied the back brake on that Harley. Was his normal habit to rely on the front brake which , going ---slowly --- uphill ,would be a normal way to slow down if you did not want to be a braking nerd . So that might be the big mistake !
Reading the post above about two feet down stopping reminds me that the trailer following does not improve the stability of the bike . The bike can still lean relative to the trailer. But personally I would normally put the left foot down only ,which allows the back brake to stay on. Is a Harley back brake operated with right or left foot ? That seems relevant .
Next week we can examine high side tumbles on even more powerful Pan Europeans .

 

[Sadlsor]

I don`t imagine anyone can tell what percentage they split between front and back braking .

Actually, I can. For me it's 95% BOTH brakes. The remainder is when I'm creeping in traffic and using them for slowing, moreso than stopping.

One problem with powerful disc brakes is the way the back wheel comes right of the road when stopping quickly . I noticed that when I stopped for a man on a crossing. He was amused by the way the back wheel came up .

Interesting. I don't seem to have that problem, and I often practice quick stops on my 1300.

But personally I would normally put the left foot down only ,which allows the back brake to stay on. Is a Harley back brake operated with right or left foot ? That seems relevant .

This is the method used by many when stopping on a hill, for exactly the reason you describe.
The rear brake on a Harley is operated with the right foot, in conventional fashion.

 

[Yohan]

I forgot to mention poor souls like me that can`t get both feet on the ground . Has there ever been a poll to count how many one footers are on this forum . Did the Japanese researchers for the ideal Pan design forget that we are not all as tall as Dutch men . (Tallest in the world . It`s all that cheese .)
Just to round off the point about my Stoppie at the crossing ; I never knew the name of that at the time . Shortly after I realised the front forks had a valve to stop the front dipping when braking . I tested that for a time and it made the suspension feel very wooden. So I disabled the valve and went back to dipping front forks and restored a large slice of feedback to the brakes . Is there anything similar to this anti - dip mechanism in a Pan ?

 

[Yohan]

This a basic question about a 2 wheeled trailer attached to a motorcycle . On level ground --with no brakes operating -- and the bike stationary can the rider sit with both feet up and remain steady ? Or will bike slowly keel over sideways ? That includes hanging one left arm and one left leg out .

 

[Sadlsor]

A trailer, of and by itself, will not keep a 2-wheeled motorbike upright. But one or both feet on the ground at a stop, will.
The trailer hitch is designed to allow the bike to lean, independent of the trailer, IF said trailer also has 2 wheels, i.e., not a Unigo or similar.

 

[sirepair]

A trailer, of and by itself, will not keep a 2-wheeled motorbike upright. But one or both feet on the ground at a stop, will.
The trailer hitch is designed to allow the bike to lean, independent of the trailer, IF said trailer also has 2 wheels, i.e., not a Unigo or similar.

And with a one-wheeled trailer, you have to hold the bike AND trailer upright, since the trailer leans with the bike! But most one-wheeled trailers are much smaller than the utility and pop-up camper trailers that are pulled. I think my home-built one weighs about 70-80lbs empty, and I doubt that I've had more than 60 or 70lbs in it.

 

[Yohan]

So if a bike plus trailer is moving on a level surface what is the slowest speed possible ? Then the rider needs to calculate how slow he can ride up a steep hill with a car waiting at the top . This is a reverse of that great film ( Duel 1971 ) where a tanker lorry is chasing the car driver. I always watch repeats of that one .

 

[nicksacco]

That video was very interesting indeed. I've watched quite a few of their videos.
Stopping with the right foot on the brake is how I ride, but a lot of good points and discussion here.
I don't want to second-guess, but only recommend practice in parking lots doing emergency stops and/or just feeling how the bike responds to different situations.
(I don't do enough of that).
Learning to stop and start on a hill is very important too.
If you have short legs, shaving the sides of the seat (the foam) can make a big difference in your stability if you can't just lower the seat.
I've never pulled a trailer and the whole camping thing that this couple does is to be commended.
I like a nice hotel room after a long day!

 

[Andrew Shadow]

So if a bike plus trailer is moving on a level surface what is the slowest speed possible ? Then the rider needs to calculate how slow he can ride up a steep hill with a car waiting at the top .

In this case, being a two wheeled trailer, the same speed as a given rider is capable of riding without the trailer, as long as the motorcycle and the rider are capable of pulling the extra weight at that low of a speed. With the ST1300 for example, it has enough low RPM torque that I never found slow speed maneuvers pulling a trailer to be a problem.

The presence of the trailer in and of itself doesn't affect the balance of the motorcycle except when the trailer tires hit irregularities/foreign objects on the road at different times causing a slight pull to one side or the other, which tugs the trailer hitch to one side or the other. At cruising speed this is not even noticeable for the most part. At very slow speeds the effect is more pronounced and can cause a change in balance that needs to be corrected for.

 

[Yohan]

One other alternative to running the trailer back down the hill could have been to get on the bike with trailer attached . Maybe just block the trailer wheels first. Then wrestle the bike upright and start the engine with back brake pressed , and finish the hill . Use the prop stand as well to make it more graceful .
Message to campers ;Don`t camp near any steep hills .