Can you find it and post the link?
my trailer build
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Sadlsor
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Why, yes.
Yes, we can.
(I subscribe to this channel, as I'm in the market for a trailer.)
Not like FortNine, though.
No, not at all.
So, the weight transfer removed the front wheel's traction. The back brake should have held it if the could hold the bike up with just his left foot.
ReSTored
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Man, that's a big trailer for a bike to be pulling and a very very steep hill. We see the front wheel locked and sliding, I wonder if the rear wheel was doing the same thing or was it applied at all?
I'm guessing not applied. I'm not good at one-leg stops, even on flat pavement.
Sadlsor
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Not to disparage the man nor his wife, but the handful of videos I've seen him in, shows me he's a very laid back rider, and very conservative in his style.
I've not seen him aggressive with throttle or cornering, with or without the trailer. All this to say, I don't know what skill level he has, other than consistent and competent and responsible.
He could have simply been caught by surprise, and the trailer rollback did happen suddenly.
As a result of riding tall dualsports for years, I've learned to be comfortable putting either foot down at a stop, because I could never put down both.
Not at the same time, anyway.
I've not seen him aggressive with throttle or cornering, with or without the trailer. All this to say, I don't know what skill level he has, other than consistent and competent and responsible.
He could have simply been caught by surprise, and the trailer rollback did happen suddenly.
As a result of riding tall dualsports for years, I've learned to be comfortable putting either foot down at a stop, because I could never put down both.
Not at the same time, anyway.
I`m glad you found that . The rider was kind to us all by showing what could happen . I am wondering how a trailer brake could function with a motorcycle. We had a trailer on a car once and I can`t remember any brake on that .
Is there a competition to demonstrate reversing a trailer down a steep hill ?
If the bike was turned round and attached to the trailer would the forward descent have been precarious ? The trailer load was balanced forwards. If balanced backwards the forward travel down the hill would be very dangerous with back wheel pressure reduced . Only the front wheel brake would be effective .(??).
Inventive spirit level makers already designing Harley tank attachments for steep hills .
Many wives would be less than happy in that situation . But two very nice people . And very nice helpers especially .
Is there a competition to demonstrate reversing a trailer down a steep hill ?
If the bike was turned round and attached to the trailer would the forward descent have been precarious ? The trailer load was balanced forwards. If balanced backwards the forward travel down the hill would be very dangerous with back wheel pressure reduced . Only the front wheel brake would be effective .(??).
Inventive spirit level makers already designing Harley tank attachments for steep hills .
Many wives would be less than happy in that situation . But two very nice people . And very nice helpers especially .
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A separate problem for you . Bringing the heavy , separated trailer down the hill ---would zig-zagging be safer for the guys in front ?
Try this for some Holiday Fun . Don`t forget your camera .
Try this for some Holiday Fun . Don`t forget your camera .
I've only pulled my Mini-Mate a few hundred miles, so I am by no means an expert. But I experienced a similar issue my first time out, and I was two-up at the time! Fortunately I usually use rear brake often when two-up, and normally don't have an issue holding the bike with my left foot down at a stop. It was a bit of a pucker moment, and reinforced that this is an issue that one must take into consideration when towing. Took some serious clutch slipping to get the whole rig moving after that stop!
If I was pulling anything larger than the Mini Mate, I would want to have some sort of trailer brakes installed.
If I was pulling anything larger than the Mini Mate, I would want to have some sort of trailer brakes installed.
In the video he mentions the trailer balancing forward before the trip. That was estimated on a level area . Allowing for optical effects while filming , what is the balance state on such a steep hill ? If it balances backwards , the rear wheel on the bike is much less effective although half of the bike weight comes into the calculation .
Andrew Shadow
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I pulled a Time Out Deluxe camper trailer with my ST1300. It is listed at 385 pounds empty. To heavy for the ST1300 in my opinion. It is much better suited to the eight and nine hundred pound Goldwings and BMW K11001200LT size motorcycles, which I have used to pull this trailer without much issue. Getting a trailer moving is rarely an issue with almost any tow vehicle. Stopping it is the bigger issue.
The manufacturer of the axle assembly used on the Time Out trailer does not recommend using electric brakes for axles of this weight rating, despite what Time Out states. The axle manufacturer states that there is not enough weight on the axle to allow the brakes to function smoothly. I installed the electric brakes any way, and found out that they were right. I could never get them to apply enough braking power to actually be of use without causing at least one wheel to constantly lock and unlock while stopping. I eventually turned them off and didn't use them.
After this experience, I believe that the Mini-Mate is about the maximum weight that I would consider pulling with an ST1300.
Sadlsor
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OK then, without "too much" of a hijack, how many trailer-towers here have gone dark?
Towing, when I eventually do it, may well push me through my lessening resistance to car tire installation on the 1300.
Towing, when I eventually do it, may well push me through my lessening resistance to car tire installation on the 1300.
I'm running double dark on my ST1100. Trailering was not the primary reason, but I feel DS is an advantage when towing the trailer.
Additional thoughts about the angle of the hill ---versus the angle of a Harley leaning . If the Harley was to be across that slope is it going to scrape the road in a vertical position ? Or just topple over ?
Also in the film the bike slows down to zero and the suspension squashes down at the front and also at the rear due to the trailer weight --and then the trailer will rock backwards enough to reduce rear tyre contact momentarily --where we see the whole setup run backwards just enough to get the trailer out of line and tip the bike over . Interesting sequence in a physical limits kind of way .
In the video the rider says he won`t make that mistake again. But what was the actual mistake ? Was it a heavy trailer , or a steep hill ? Maybe there is a kind of handbrake made just to hold a trailer on a steep hill but not for normal driving ? I suppose at a pinch you could have a log dragging behind the wheels held by a rope to be disconnected after completing the hill. It`s an Ice Cold in Alex scenario . You might get a ticket for chopping down trees .
Andrew Shadow
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In my experience a heavy bike will slide backwards on a steep upward slope if using only the front brake if there is the slightest amount of gravel, sand, etc. on the road. There just isn't enough weight on the front tire for it to hold on.
The weight of a trailer, one that most likely isn't equipped with brakes, adding additional pull backwards and you are in for an interesting ride.
The weight of a trailer, one that most likely isn't equipped with brakes, adding additional pull backwards and you are in for an interesting ride.
I`m glad you mentioned using only the front brake. There seems to have been a drift towards only using the front brake on bikes .I always used front and back brakes and have only ridden one bike with disc brakes . That was a CBX550 (covered discs in case of rain ) before brake pads were developed fully . But a few articles surprised me in the almost casual assumption that front brake was enough .Or sometimes only back brake .
Italians had connected brakes which annoyed some . What is the correct modern standard these days ? Maybe back brakes have become the standard control for wheelies .
Italians had connected brakes which annoyed some . What is the correct modern standard these days ? Maybe back brakes have become the standard control for wheelies .
Sadlsor
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Simple.
No, really!.
In a stressful situation, the human animal will reflexively revert to everyday habits and routine.
In other words, when Ms. I-don't-see-you pulls out right in front of you, and you must perform a quick stop RightFreakingNow!, your (and my) physiology will perform as you and I do in the everyday, normal braking movement.
If you habitually use just the front (or rear) brake, in nearly every single instance this is exactly what you will do when faced with no time to think.
So, since we already know the front brake delivers approximately 70% of our total stopping power, at this sudden high-stress moment do you want 70%, or 100% stopping power?
Pardon me, but if you chose 70%, please excuse yourself from this conversation.
If you always, all the time, no exception, use only the rear brake for stopping, no matter what, wouldn't you agree it will take you longer to stop from any speed, than a rider using both brakes?
Without going completely medical nerd on y'all, this aspect of human behavior has been documented for so long, as relates to so many disciplines (combat and sefl-defense shooting comes to mind) that it can be stated as fact, certainly as fact for the purpose of this discussion.
So I won't judge anyone's riding style, but this is the reason braking is taught this way in the MSF Basic RiderCourse.
Note, too, perhaps I should have stated at the outset, this response is restricted to street riding, not racing or other moto-pursuits.
No, really!.
In a stressful situation, the human animal will reflexively revert to everyday habits and routine.
In other words, when Ms. I-don't-see-you pulls out right in front of you, and you must perform a quick stop RightFreakingNow!, your (and my) physiology will perform as you and I do in the everyday, normal braking movement.
If you habitually use just the front (or rear) brake, in nearly every single instance this is exactly what you will do when faced with no time to think.
So, since we already know the front brake delivers approximately 70% of our total stopping power, at this sudden high-stress moment do you want 70%, or 100% stopping power?
Pardon me, but if you chose 70%, please excuse yourself from this conversation.
If you always, all the time, no exception, use only the rear brake for stopping, no matter what, wouldn't you agree it will take you longer to stop from any speed, than a rider using both brakes?
Without going completely medical nerd on y'all, this aspect of human behavior has been documented for so long, as relates to so many disciplines (combat and sefl-defense shooting comes to mind) that it can be stated as fact, certainly as fact for the purpose of this discussion.
So I won't judge anyone's riding style, but this is the reason braking is taught this way in the MSF Basic RiderCourse.
Note, too, perhaps I should have stated at the outset, this response is restricted to street riding, not racing or other moto-pursuits.
In my opinion, it was the combination of the trailer, the hill, and not waiting for the car ahead to pull away before climbing the hill.
Had he waited for the car to go, he could have continued moving up until reaching level ground before stopping for the stop sign.
The back brake may have prevented the rearward slide and the fall, but I, too, am a two-foot stopper, so I cant criticize him for that.