New Avon up front w/shakes. Change the tire or bearings?

[throxy]

Hey guys. So I changed out my tires this past weekend. I had the OEM Dunlop 220's on both front an back up until about a month ago when I got a rear flat. Had to go with a Dunlop Sportmax Roadsmart but 1) it was not the correct size/load bearing tire for the bike and 2) I found a split in the tire a couple of weeks later. Both events are document in these two posts:

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72400
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73569

I have not resolved what happened with the cut/split in the Dunlop Sportmax Roadsmart rear, but given that I didn't really like the handling of the tire, or at least the handling of the mixed match pair, I decided to get a new matching set. I decided on the Avon Storms based on the good reviews on the forum. That said, I guess I didn't do my homework, as I have sense found several posts related to the front in shake that Avon acknowledges, which is why they do not recommend the Storms for the ST1300 (see posts 65 here: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=777643 and post 82 here: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=788353 .

Well the tires are on now and as you have already guessed, I do have that shake, which was not present before. I ordered the tires from motorcycle-superstore.com (kicking myself for not ordering through Two Brothers) and they have agreed to take the front back to "inspect" it. I don't think they will have any problem refunding me once I present them with the additional information I found on this forum, and if they do have a problem doing so, I will then contact Jesse at Avon.

That said, a few people have had reported on this site that they have had success with replacing the standard ball bearings with taper roller bearings. Avon has apparently noted the same.

So my question is this... Should I get rid of this front tire all together or should I try replacing the bearings first. Before answering, keep in mind two things. 1) besides the wobble in the front end, that is quite controllable, I really like the way these tires stick to the road, and having had to ride them home in the rain after they were installed, I like their wet weather properties, also. 2) It's going to cost me two hours in shop labor costs to have have the tire removed, replacing it with the old one, then having a new one installed once I get/find a replacement.

Would changing the bearings out be a cheaper alternative, assuming that virtually eliminates the wobble? There's a tech event coming up next month in Jersey and I could probably get the bearing done in exchange for some pie. If not, a local shop can certainly do it.

Your thoughts?

 

[Byron]

This is my personal opinion on your situation based on my experience. If Avon is saying that they are not recommending their tire for the ST it is being done because some lawyer has told them to so they don't get caught up in any law suits regarding a Honda issue. This is my personal feelings.

I have run Avon's for a number of sets. At least 2 sets of Azaro's and 2 sets of Storms. My only reason for going to the Storms was because Avon quit making the Azaro in the ST sizes. I quit using the Storms because I couldn't get the mileage I wanted out of them. I was only getting 5 to 6 thousand out of a set and I was wanting at least 8.

If Avon is saying it is because of their aggressive design and the ball head bearings then I would switch to the tapered bearings because all the other tire manufactures are probably shooting for aggressive design as well and might not be there yet. I have the bearings but never had a shake issue so haven't put them on my '06 yet.

That being said, if you are going to switch tires I would suggest the PR2's or Battleax's. I prefer the PR2's because they are easier to mount. I tried the RoadSmart's but couldn't get the mileage out of them either but grip was good.

I too have twisties in my back yard.

 

[Tom Mac 04a]

{Well the tires are on now and as you have already guessed, I do have that shake, which was not present before}

I'd solve one problems one at a time... if it wasn't there before, then I say it's the tires... change out ( don't forget to check rim runout and find heavy spot on rim before tire on ) tires.

After you have balanced the new tire and all is back to where it was before... change bearings if desired.
At least you'll know for sure what's causing problem if you take one step at a time.

 

[throxy]

I'd solve one problems one at a time... if it wasn't there before, then I say it's the tires... change out ( don't forget to check rim runout and find heavy spot on rim before tire on ) tires.

Tom Mac 04a, I'm don't have any doubts it's the tires. There are post all over this forum where guys have put an Avon Storm on the front had had issues immediately.

What I am trying to ascertain is what you guys thoughts were on installing new bearings in place of swapping out the tire again. I'd especially like to hear from the guys who have Storms or guys who have replaced the bearings due to some other band of tire's handling issues.

 

[Buzz]

If the front wheel was installed by someone else, I would first do a reinstall of the wheel to ensure the axle is properly seated and torqued.

I had a bad install of a Dunlop 220 while touring (didn't have time to bring it back to the dealer)...lots of shake kept me below 70 mph for most of the ride from South Dakota to Newfoundland. I spent a lot of time cursing the dealer. After I got home I switched to a BT020 front but kept the Dunlop as a back up. After I wore out the 020, I had the Dunlop remounted and the tire was fine. Got another 4,000 kms out of it...none of the previous shake. I believe the problem was the install because my dealer checked the balancing of the Dunlop before the 020 went on the rim and it was OK.

I've now put 8,000 km on an Avon Storm front and find it is very stable. Even with hands off deceleration 50 mph through 40 mph, which has caused some shake with other tires. Still have the original bearings up front after 75,000 kms. You might have a bad tire but, for the little time it takes, I would first eliminate the possibility of bad installation (including balancing). My :tc1: worth.

 

[Rob Hephner]

There are way too many factors to ever be able to give you a real suggestion as to what the issue might be.

That being said, a ST1300 that is properly setup suspension-wise and has had the tires and wheels properly installed does not have an issue.

Make sure you have all of the above before arbitrarily changing even more variables.

 

[dduelin]

There are posts all over this forum from folks that love the Storms that have had no problems whatsoever. Happy people aren't dealing with Jesse. Like me.

Many motorcycles will exhibit a hands-off head shake under certain circumstances. I am not saying that the tire is not at fault but I would leave the bearings alone and rule out a bad tire or tire/wheel install.

 

[Throttlejockey]

This is the reason I didn't buy a set of those. I find it hard to believe switching bearings would do anything.

 

[Hashimoto]

I mounted Storms on my 06. Did the mounting , balancing, install myself. I've got nothing but good things to say about the tires. No shake, tracks straight, sticks great.

I did just have to replace the well worn rear. I got a blow out at CT-SToc and couldn't get another Storm locally

 

[DeanR]

Seems Storms are generally OK on the 1300; not so with the 1100 regarding shake.

I'm looking forward to the Storm 2 that is supposed to be out any time now. Any word on that Tim?

 

[MikeG12]

Check the steering head bearing preload before doing anything else. The preload should be adjusted so there is very slight friction when turning the steering--jack the front off the ground and check it. If the steering just goes from one side to the other with no apparent friction, it is too loose. I don't have any shakes on my 2006 ST with BT020's but I have had slightly loose steering head bearings on my other bikes cause exactly the shake you talk about. Avons may be more sensitive to the preload.

 

[throxy]

Check the steering head bearing preload before doing anything else. The preload should be adjusted so there is very slight friction when turning the steering--jack the front off the ground and check it. If the steering just goes from one side to the other with no apparent friction, it is too loose. I don't have any shakes on my 2006 ST with BT020's but I have had slightly loose steering head bearings on my other bikes cause exactly the shake you talk about. Avons may be more sensitive to the preload.

I propped the bike onto the center stand and tipped it back a bit so that the front wheel was off the ground. The bars immediately started turning to the left. I centered the bars then let go and once again the bars tipped pretty quickly to the left. Another centering effort had the bars tipping to the right, but not as easy as they tipped to the other side. If I tap the bars in an effort to get them to move from side to side, the bars do not go from one side to the other, though. There is a little friction in the middle.

Do these sound like they need to be tightened? If so, is this something I can do myself without pulling a whole lot of stuff apart? Unfortunately, Snap-On doesn't stop by my place, so while I have more than one of those tool kits you can get from the local bank when you open account, I'd hardly call what I have extensive.

 

[dduelin]

If I recall correctly there is a value given in the service manual for a spring pull test to determine steering head bearing preload.

How many miles friend? The bearings don't usually wear out in the few miles most bikes rack up in 2 or 3 years. The bearings were fine with the old tire?

 

[throxy]

Only 5200 miles on the bike. It's am '06 that was purchased new in April of 2008 (holdover). I've put all but 600 miles on the bike.

 

[MikeG12]

Looking at the service manual, the steering stem nut is first torqued to 18Lbft, then the steering head is moved lock to lock 5 times, then the nut is re-torqued to 11lbft. The preload is then checked with a spring scale and is specified to be 2.14 to 3.2lbs pull. I just do the check by feel. 2-3 lbs is definitely going to feel as thought there is some friction, so it sounds like yours is a little loose. Tightening it requires the top triple clamp to be removed, meaning the handlebars have to be removed and pushed out of the way etc. You will probably need a large socket to remove the top bridge nut, and a torque wrench to re-install it. Not too hard but you will need a couple of tools and a little time. From my results on my other bike, I'm betting this will solve the problem.

 

[Two Brothers]

Seems Storms are generally OK on the 1300; not so with the 1100 regarding shake.

I'm looking forward to the Storm 2 that is supposed to be out any time now. Any word on that Tim?

They are leaning towards Indy in Feburary from what I have heard. They should support the ST also.

 

[Highway Troll]

I propped the bike onto the center stand and tipped it back a bit so that the front wheel was off the ground. The bars immediately started turning to the left. I centered the bars then let go and once again the bars tipped pretty quickly to the left. Another centering effort had the bars tipping to the right, but not as easy as they tipped to the other side. If I tap the bars in an effort to get them to move from side to side, the bars do not go from one side to the other, though. There is a little friction in the middle.

They move ok left of centre and right of centre but have friction in the middle? If i read that right you have a flat spot in your head bearings and they need replacement. Friction should be the same from one side to the other.

 

[throxy]

They move ok left of centre and right of centre but have friction in the middle? If i read that right you have a flat spot in your head bearings and they need replacement. Friction should be the same from one side to the other.

More like the have friction in the center and to the right of center but almost none left of center. Definitely not the same from side to side.

 

[WhoaBad]

I wouldn't hesitate to check the bearings (and replace seals when you do), but wouldn't replace parts unless they are bad. I had a set of Avon STorms and they started to cup & shimmy pretty bad after 5k miles or so.

Assuming that you've ruled out normal maintenance to forks and the dampner assy, you may want to stiffen the springs or go with an emulator mod.
I'm still not an Avon STorm fan, but I'm much heavier than most. I've tried Metzeler, Avon, Dunlop, and Bridgestone tires, and plain old BT-020's seam to do the job OK.

Getting the suspension set right (front AND back) was the key for me.

 

[Tidrick]

Had a set of Azarros on my ST1100 - no head shake. Now Storm left on the front which started exhibiting shake on decel some time after install. Still does it if I don't hold the bars well on decel, but a steady hand seems to quiet it down. Thing is, the tire rides well, handles well and has almost 20k running on SequenT. I don't like the shake, but I sure like how this tire has held up.