New trend in Diesel oils

Igofar

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Several of the Diesel oils keep changing their formulas to keep up with the EPA and the low ash modern small vehicles.
Shell was the first company that we started seeing issues with clutches slipping, and ratings change, such as removing the gasoline ratings etc.
Nobody seems to know what they've done with their products, but I've replaced almost a half dozen nasty, dirty, slipping clutches, with the new version, so I stopped using it, despite it having the wet clutch rating.
Now Valvoline, and Chevron Delo 400 have "new versions" such as generation II etc. which are showing the SP rating on the bottles. (resource conserving) so these are now in question as well.
There are still several good quality diesel oils out there that don't have this new rating (for now at least).
While it does not have the JASO MA rating or certification (this is questionable on the shell product as well) on the containers, Walmart sells the Super Tech brand 15w40 Heavy duty diesel oil that still has the gasoline rating, and the SN rating (which is not energy or resource conserving) and states its still good for gasoline engines.
I've been using this oil with good results, no clutch issues, and the UOA samples come back with very good numbers.
If your concerned with an oil that has the JASO rating (that has been certified, and not just implied) I would suggest you pick any known brand of motorcycle specific oil, that shows its been certified.
If your not concerned with this one rating, any of the SN rated diesel oils seem to still be working ok at this time.
Pay your dollar, take your chances.
I've opened up two clutches that have been using the Super Tech for close to 50k miles, and the clutches were clean and in good condition, unlike what I've found on the new shell versions of their 5w40 and 15w40 stuff.
:WCP1:
 
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Igofar

Igofar

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Not trying to start anything Larry, this is still good yes? I get confused easy.
IMG_5264.jpeg
I would not continue to use that oil, simply because it has no gasoline rating on the API donut, and I don't trust several of their "implied" it meets JASO DH2, MA, MA2 etc.
And more importantly for me at least, this is the brand/type of oil used in the bikes I opened up with the nasty slipping clutches.
 

wjbertrand

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Just to add a little information: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/diesel-oil-in-gasoline-engine/

I've never understood the compulsion to use diesel oil (regardless of rating) when there are so many good motorcycle specific oils available. Sure its a bit cheaper in some cases, but in the overall cost of motorcycle ownership, the savings are not significant. Some sort of "beat the system" mentality or something? I think this article also questions its use in gasoline engines.
 
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Igofar

Igofar

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Just to add a little information: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/diesel-oil-in-gasoline-engine/

I've never understood the compulsion to use diesel oil (regardless of rating) when there are so many good motorcycle specific oils available. Sure its a bit cheaper in some cases, but in the overall cost of motorcycle ownership, the savings are not significant. Some sort of "beat the system" mentality or something? I think this article also questions its use in gasoline engines.
It was never about using cheaper oil, or saving money, but using a better quality oil than the standard motorcycle specific stuff.
 

wjbertrand

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It was never about using cheaper oil, or saving money, but using a better quality oil than the standard motorcycle specific stuff.
OK, but what's the data that says diesel oil is "better quality" than standard motorcycle oils in a motorcycle application? A very high quality oil intended for one primary application might not be so high quality in a different application. Quality is a function of how something performs in it's primary intended application right? I've never seen MotoGP or Superbike teams running diesel oil.
 
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Igofar

Igofar

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OK, but what's the data that says diesel oil is "better quality" than standard motorcycle oils in a motorcycle application? A very high quality oil intended for one primary application might not be so high quality in a different application. Quality is a function of how something performs in it's primary intended application right? I've never seen MotoGP or Superbike teams running diesel oil.
Or have you?
Over the years I’ve seen many different types of race bikes use diesel oil.
From motocross, trials, speedway, flat track, the mile, etc.
It may surprise you to know that just because someone is sponsoring a certain type of oil on their jersey, does not mean they use it.
:rofl1:
 
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Igofar

Igofar

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OK, but what's the data that says diesel oil is "better quality" than standard motorcycle oils in a motorcycle application? A very high quality oil intended for one primary application might not be so high quality in a different application. Quality is a function of how something performs in it's primary intended application right? I've never seen MotoGP or Superbike teams running diesel oil.
Read the article attached.
 
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Wow ... ANOTHER oil thread !

Admittedly, Larry provides important information for ST13's, so I read his initial post

... the other replies, who knows, but here we go again :)
 

wjbertrand

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Or have you?
Over the years I’ve seen many different types of race bikes use diesel oil.
From motocross, trials, speedway, flat track, the mile, etc.
It may surprise you to know that just because someone is sponsoring a certain type of oil on their jersey, does not mean they use it.
:rofl1:
I have not, to answer the question. I’d be willing to be corrected in the case of a solid example (not hearsay) though.

Not sure why a team would not use their sponsor’s oil and pay for something else, when the sponsor is likely providing the oil free. On the other hand, why would a sponsor put their name on a bike using someone else’s oil in case of a failure?

Read the article attached.
I’ve read that one and many other articles and have not been convinced that diesel oil is a better alternative to motorcycle oil, in fact the more I read (always considering the sources and background of the writer), the more convinced I become that motorcycle specific oil is the best choice for a motorcycle.
 
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Igofar

Igofar

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I have not, to answer the question. I’d be willing to be corrected in the case of a solid example (not hearsay) though.

Not sure why a team would not use their sponsor’s oil and pay for something else, when the sponsor is likely providing the oil free. On the other hand, why would a sponsor put their name on a bike using someone else’s oil in case of a failure?



I’ve read that one and many other articles and have not been convinced that diesel oil is a better alternative to motorcycle oil, in fact the more I read (always considering the sources and background of the writer), the more convinced I become that motorcycle specific oil is the best choice for a motorcycle.
Which is probably why big companies hire marketing folks to sell their stuff to folks who believe stuff like Honda oil is the best, because Honda built the bike, they know what works best, why would they not use the stuff made for it etc.
Do you find that salesmen are drawn towards you when you walk on a motorcycle or car dealership?
:rofl1:
 
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Igofar

Igofar

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Anything provided would be considered hearsay by you, probably even if you saw and heard it from the source directly, so I won’t continue this discussion, as I have seen it personally, and value my opinion over what you want to believe….
However here is some hearsay for you….
Took all of ten seconds and a question to google.
Take it for what it’s worth.
 

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wjbertrand

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Yup, unconvincing... Please note that I avoided personal innuendos such as:

"Do you find that salesmen are drawn towards you when you walk on a motorcycle or car dealership?
:rofl1:"

Which is a defense some people use when lacking data.
 
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Igofar

Igofar

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Yup, unconvincing... Please note that I avoided personal innuendos such as:

"Do you find that salesmen are drawn towards you when you walk on a motorcycle or car dealership?
:rofl1:"

Which is a defense some people use when lacking data.
No disrespect was intended, just my dry sense of humor.
But I will use your "I avoided personal innuendos such as for your comment about a defense some people use when lacking data etc.
There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
Will Rogers
I'm guessing I'm not as lacking in data as you would think, but who am I to try and convince you or anyone else of that.
If you re-read my post, it is nothing more than offering folks another choice, or the advice to use whatever oil they choose, for whatever reason they want.
I have raced along side several folks that were sponsored, that chose not to use the sponsored product. '
Its a lot more common than you'd think.
Just because your not sure someone would do that, does not mean it does not happen.
Like I tell my kids, don't believe everything you think, you may be wrong once in a while.
Use what ever oil makes you happy.
Ride safe.
 
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