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[Mick]

Of all the **@&! I've ridden my new to me ST exactly twice since purchasing it. Just went out to the garage and just for grins decided to turn the rear wheel.... REALLY hard to turn by hand!!! The bike had 7800 miles on it when purchased and now has a whopping 8500 miles on the odometer.

I think I know what may have happened. The PO took the bike to the dealer before I bought it to get a "fluids change" a general tune up and the battery replaced. When I got the bike home I found an aluminum tab that one of the right side panel screws into completely stripped (already talked about this in another thread). I'll bet you the same incompetents who couldn't even screw in a fastener properly did a brake system flush. God I hate dealer service departments!

Because of a lot going on right now including an upcoming trip, I can't get to it for several weeks. When I get back, like all the other folks in the ST1300 bad brake club, I'll have some questions. Just needed to vent.

Guess I'll go online now and order the motion pro bleeder and get ready for the fun.

 

[scooterdoc]

Mick, i know it's frustrating. mine was almost exactly the same bought with 7500, before 8000 it was in pieces. learned a lot, not that hard, and once done properly, have not had problem one since. let us know if you need help. but feel free to vent, i definately understand.

chris

 

[Mick]

Mick, i know it's frustrating. mine was almost exactly the same bought with 7500, before 8000 it was in pieces. learned a lot, not that hard, and once done properly, have not had problem one since. let us know if you need help. but feel free to vent, i definately understand.

Thanks scooter. I'll certainly have questions but unfortunately, not right now. It will be early to mid October before I can get to it.

Amazing that your mileage was the same as mine. Was their a dealer behind your woes too?

 

[redst05]

Sorry to hear of you recent run of bad luck, but I do agree that when I started to do my own work with help from the fine folks here I seem to have fewer problems. The motion pro bleeder should make the job much easier.. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[scooterdoc]

Thanks scooter. I'll certainly have questions but unfortunately, not right now. It will be early to mid October before I can get to it.

Amazing that your mileage was the same as mine. Was their a dealer behind your woes too?

Mick,

Actually the dealer I bought the bike from i really like. I have purchased my last five motorcycles from them. Mark actually owns Brookhaven Honda and is a really great guy and a true motorcyclist. The deal behind my ST was it was traded in on a wing on saturday. Monday morning I noticed it was on the website at 0830. I called Mark at 10:00 and asked if it was sold or if there was a hold on it. He said "no". I told him, put a hold on it I will be there in 2.5 hours. when I got there, and saw the amount of farkeling and accessories that were on the bike, I said "I'll take it." Literally within 2 days, the wheel was locked up. I have a real suspicion that the PO was having problems, and that Marks service department never even had the chance to look at it. In retrospect, I really blame the PO more than anything else because there was NO WAY the SMC could go from good to the state it was in upon disassembly over the weekend. I will say wheter you decide to rebuild, replace SMC, or just bleed properly, if you need the SMC snap ring pliers, let me know, I'll send them to you to borrow.

Chris

 

[tman]

Mick,

I feel your pain. When my bike (2004) reached approx. 19K miles I was having a mild rear dragging issue. I replaced all of the pads & changed the brake fluid. That seemed to have done the job until I reached approx. 25K miles. Then, my rear wheel would lock up when pressing the rear brake pedal. I tried changing the brake fluid again and nothing changed. I got frustrated and shoved my bike in the corner of my garage for almost 2 years (fortunately I have 2 other bikes to ride). I finally decided it was time to fix my ST. But, based on the research that I did on this site I wasn't sure if the SMC would resolve my issue (i.e. rear wheel locking up when pressing the rear brake pedal). I replaced my SMC and brake fluid and it resolved my issue. I had forgotten how much fun the ST is to ride.

The Motion Pro works great!!!

Good luck.

tman

 

[Igofar]

We're here for ya Mick! If you need anything at all. Feel free to PM me or I can call you if you need any help or assistance in the brake department. There are several very kind and knowledgeable folks here ready to help you whenever you decide to start.
The folks on this forum are like family. If it wasn't for Mr. & Mrs. Scooterdoc, my wife wouldn't be doing so well in her Cancer treatment. They've been there anytime we had a question, or just needed someone to talk to. We are truly blessed knowing them.
Same with Cousin Jack, now look at that riding fool! Taking the most beautiful pictures of mountain passes and living life to the fullest.
And to think, it was because of Honda's SMC, that brought us all together
We'll get ya through this...
If you lived in California, you could bet your last dollar I would be sitting on your doorstep tomorrow morning with my Motion Pro Brake bleeding tool in one hand and my Blue Monster Energy drink in the other.
Igofar

 

[Mellow]

Mick, I'm on call so I can't get to Houston. If you were able to come up here we'd work on it and figure it out. I have 2 motion pro bleeders in hand but have yet to try them. The problem really isn't the tool or the design of the system, it's just doing a replacement correctly which some dealership seem to miss - probably because the design is different from the other bikes that Honda makes and 1 missed step pretty much negates the whole service effort.

 

[Mick]

I was finally able to get around to bleeding the brakes yesterday using the Motion-Pro tool... a very handy little gadget! :bow1:

I could NOT believe the amount of air that came out of the PCV! The front had a bunch of air fly out as well but nothing like the PCV. After finishing, I tied off the front brake lever and hung a heavy weight on the brake pedal. This morning everything is nice and firm.

Some things I discovered:

1. Either the PO lied to me about fluids change or the dealer screwed him good (more likely). It was quite clear to me given the relatively clear color of the fluid in the front brake reservoir versus the color of the fluid that came out of the system while bleeding, that someone had just emptied the reservoir and put new fluid in without bleeding. Given the color and amount of air I saw come out of the system, I guarantee you that those brakes had never been bled in its 7 year/7800 mile existence. There was even a very slight amount of yellowish gunk in the bottom of the rear brake reservoir. I bled the pedal system twice so hopefully any gunk that was out of sight in the system got flushed out.

2. Bleeding this puppy thoroughly takes a lot more time than the ST1100 did, due primarily to #3.

3. Maybe it's just that I'm new to the ST1300 but getting all the tupperware off is way more involved that the ST1100 was.

So, did this cure my perceived brake problem? Don't know. What I did find out before even bleeding was that the rear wheel rotated MUCH easier than at the time of my initial post. Just prior to that discovery, I had moved the SMC a couple of times to see if it was moving freely. It seemed to work just fine. That may mean that the SMC is occasionally sticking or something else was going on. We'll see but it's hard to believe that the SMC has been sticking since the brake pads look just fine and I got decent mileage when riding it back on the 600 mile run home from purchasing it. I'll check the SMC for corrosion later when my recently ordered snap ring pliers arrive.

Now that the bleeding is done, I get about 1 1/4 revs after rotating the wheel with my foot which seems to be about what I'd get out of my ST1100.

One last thing. I can tell that this bike has only had dealer service departments work on it. There were washers missing and plastic rivets broken and missing, The bolt that connects the SMC plunger to the fork tube tab was on so dang tight I had to whack my wrench with a hammer to get it to break loose (don't think it was due to lock-tite). The bottom bolt came off like it should.

Now to button her up and get her ready for a test ride this weekend. If all goes well, I'll start adding all the farkles that I have received. :biker:

 

[Igofar]

Mick, sounds like your making progress! I'd check the SMC for corrosion just to be on the safe side. It could have been sticking in the wrong direction, not allowing the brakes to work, which would explain the pad condition. From the amount of air, and the fact it was only serviced at dealerships, my guess would be that they used a mityvac and got alot of air into the system. I hope you removed the little deflector in the mastercylinder and cleaned under it with a q-tip. The gunk you spoke of likes to collect there as well. Its simply pressed in on three little fingers, simply lift it out, clean it, and press it back in with a chopstick or wooden dowel.
You need to either PM me or search the threads for my brake bleeding shortcuts. You can bleed the entire system correctly, WITHOUT removing any body work.
Glad you liked the MP tool. They sure seem to help alot of folks on this forum.
Good job on the brake bleed.
Igofar

 

[Mick]

Mick, sounds like your making progress! I'd check the SMC for corrosion just to be on the safe side.

As soon as the snap ring pliers arrive that will be done.

From the amount of air, and the fact it was only serviced at dealerships, my guess would be that they used a mityvac and got alot of air into the system.

Actually, I don't think the system had ever been bled.

I hope you removed the little deflector in the mastercylinder and cleaned under it with a q-tip. The gunk you spoke of likes to collect there as well. Its simply pressed in on three little fingers, simply lift it out, clean it, and press it back in with a chopstick or wooden dowel.

Thanks for the tip. I did not know about this.

You need to either PM me or search the threads for my brake bleeding shortcuts. You can bleed the entire system correctly, WITHOUT removing any body work.

That will be VERY good know the next time I do this (anybody have the link?). I really wanted to do it the "hard" way this time since I'd never had the tupperware off. Need to learn as much as I can about this beast.

Glad you liked the MP tool. They sure seem to help alot of folks on this forum.

Speaking of help, thanks a bunch Larry for all of the helpful posts you've made to the forum! I read practically every thread you've made recently and even printed off your brake bleeding "cook book". Using it in conjunction with the service manual made everything go smoothly.

And speaking of smoothly, this link that Joe posted a while back ( http://www.touringmotorcyclists.com/tech_tips/st_tech_tips/front_fairing_removal.html ) made the fairing removal much easier than trying to wade through the service manual.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention another post that proved very helpful (by MileHigh):
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?68913-ST1300-Brake-Fluid-Replacement

I full sized each picture and put them in a power point presentation to view as I went along.

 

[Mick]

it's hard to believe that the SMC has been sticking since the brake pads look just fine

Oops. Spoke too soon. I was just in the process of taking the rear wheel off to make sure there was plenty of moly on the splines and found that the rear brake pads are actually worn quite a bit more than I thought. In particular, the outboard pad is much thinner than the inboard one. Compared to my old ST1100, the outboard pad looks like it has 25k miles on it but the ST13 only has 8.5k on it.

Gonna go get some new OEM pads before proceeding. When I get the caliper off I'll clean up the pistons and hope that helps.

Is there anything other than the SMC or sticking caliper pistons that could cause significant wear on the rear pads?

 

[st1300r]

iirc mine wear fairly evenly. clean and lubed caliper slide would be something to check.

 

[Mick]

iirc mine wear fairly evenly. clean and lubed caliper slide would be something to check.

Just pulled out the pads. Overall, both pads are more evenly worn that what they appeared while still in the caliper.

They still look more worn that what they would have on my ST1100 though. Is this maybe something that is typical of the ST13?

 

[Mick]

I think I have my problem tracked down to the SMC. I just removed the rear wheel to check for moly (all good & added more). While I had the wheel off I cleaned up the caliper pistons. Slapped everything back together with the original brake pads on and did the following:

1. Gave the wheel a spin before even touching the brakes. Spun free as a bird.

2. Then I pumped the rear brake to get the calipers to contact the disk. Spun the wheel and you could hear the normal swishing sound of the brakes contacting the disk. The wheel spun a little slower but not by much.

3. Then I had my wife spin the wheel in the direction of normal travel. I went to the front, grabbed the SMC and told her to tell me if it stopped. I pushed forward and the brakes applied to the rear wheel just like they are supposed to. We did this 3 or 4 times.

4. I went to the rear and spun the wheel. It definitely spun slower than before activating the SMC. It would seem that the SMC is not retracting all the way.

Anybody got any other ideas what it could be?

The snap ring pliers I ordered won't be here until next week so checking out the innards of the SMC won't get done until next weekend.

I can't imagine that the SMC would be rusted up because this bikes original owner purchased it in Albuquerque. The guy I bought it from (second owner) lived in Lubbock, Texas (also dry a dry climate).

Question:
What all is involved in rebuilding the SMC. Does it require a re-bleed once the chore is done?

 

[st1300r]

It would be normal for the wheel to drag a little more after you excercise the SMC in that test. All the pistons are now back out.

You'd need to get the air out but others mentioned swapping out the assy might be the way to go rather than a rebuild kit as the cylinder bore may be the issue not the piston assy. Hopefully not.

This Lubbock? LOL.

 

[ChucksKLRST]

Not hard to do. Can do it on the bike with out removing brake lines. Hardest part is getting to the snap ring with out destroying the boot. a new boot comes with the rebuild kit. Make sure the bore is cleaned very good before replacing the guts. The problem stems from moisture collecting in the SMC. A Lot of rain riding, not bleeding/changing the brake fluid on schedule/ improper bleed procedure and so forth. Also the rubber seals tend to swell with age and stick. I had to rebuild mine at 90000 miles after I moved back to Colorado. It always had been dragging just bit. Remember my ST came from Texas. I guess the Colorado winters finely did it in.

 

[Mick]

Not hard to do. Can do it on the bike with out removing brake lines. Hardest part is getting to the snap ring with out destroying the boot. a new boot comes with the rebuild kit. Make sure the bore is cleaned very good before replacing the guts. The problem stems from moisture collecting in the SMC. A Lot of rain riding, not bleeding/changing the brake fluid on schedule/ improper bleed procedure and so forth. Also the rubber seals tend to swell with age and stick. I had to rebuild mine at 90000 miles after I moved back to Colorado. It always had been dragging just bit. Remember my ST came from Texas. I guess the Colorado winters finely did it in.

Thanks Chuck. Would you happen to have a part # for the rebuild kit?

 

[Mick]

It would be normal for the wheel to drag a little more after you excercise the SMC in that test. All the pistons are now back out.

The thing is, it drags a bit more after activating the SMC than just activating the front & rear brakes (on centerstand, not moving). Maybe it's normal for this bike??? I'm just not use to seeing the rear brake pads wear faster than the front. It was the complete opposite on my ST1100 and every other bike I've ever had.

BTW, on closer inspection of the rear pads, I'd guesstimate that they are about 1/2 worn. Got a ways to go before they hit the replacement indicator.

You'd need to get the air out but others mentioned swapping out the assy might be the way to go rather than a rebuild kit as the cylinder bore may be the issue not the piston assy. Hopefully not.

Did that yesterday using the Motion-Pro. I've never seen so much air come out of a brake system.

This Lubbock? LOL.

The very same!

Maybe this bike was a Coop plant to sucker me up there to the ghastly heat they had back in August (108 just south of Lubbock and 104 in most places!

 

[ChucksKLRST]

Thanks Chuck. Would you happen to have a part # for the rebuild kit?

1 45620-MCS-G03 Piston Set $51.18 This is for a 2003 ST1300