Not another motor oil thread.....

[klaproth]

Recently, I noticed Costco no longer carried Delo 400LE. I used up my last gallon changing my oil this spring, and looked for Costco's replacement for it. They had Shell Rotella T4, which did not seem as good, review wise, so I got oil for my smaller bike ( NC700X) at Wal-Mart, going to Rotella T6.

I now see that Costco is carrying their OWN brand of HDEO, and the price is really good- however, it does not hold a JASO MA rating- instead, it is a DH rating. I do realize that a lot of oil manufacturers are changing formulations for the new breed of lower pollution diesel trucks, and discontinuing older formulations. Is this because the newer formulations are backwards compatible?

I guess my bigger question is, are these newer DH rated oils compatible with our bikes? I have scoured the web, with no clear answer on this. I am really hoping they are, will make searches for oil a lot easier.

Ride Safe!

 

[dduelin]

DH is not wet clutch compatible, it is a low ash standard suitable for newer on- road Diesel engines that use filters for solid particle suppression.

Rotella diesel oils originally got their reputation for good anti- wear properties which were gained from high levels of phosphorus but phosphorus creates large amounts of ash which destroys catalytic converters and clogs particulate filters. The latest requirements for HDEOs have lowered allowable ash content and neutered it’s hallowed anti-wear properties.

 

[klaproth]

DH is not wet clutch compatible, it is a low ash standard suitable for newer on- road Diesel engines that use filters for solid particle suppression.

Thanks Dave....I figured it might be that way.

 

[dduelin]

Thanks Dave....I figured it might be that way.

You are welcome. Because the NC engine is designed for such good mileage I always put recommended 10w30 motorcycle oil in it to get the best out of it. On my other bikes I'm not so discriminating. It's hard to find a 10w30 that is certified for gasoline engines and is wet clutch compatible that is not branded for motorcycle use and with that the extra cost.

 

[beemerphile]

...I have scoured the web, with no clear answer on this.

This is the sole reason the big-4 Japanese motorcycle manufacturers established the JASO MA rating program. It wasn't established by the oil companies so that they could charge more for ordinary oil, it was established by the motorcycle manufacturers after the advent of energy conserving oil started presenting problems when used in motorcycles with wet clutches. Since then, many arm-chair tribologists have devoted their considerable energies and talents to finding equivalent unrated oils that are a few bucks cheaper. Many ended up with diesel HDEO and have used it very successfully for years. Some HDEO's even self-certified that they were JASO MA, though none are listed by JALOS as MA compliant. In the current environment, there are major changes to higher tier diesel emissions technologies (as @dduelin pointed out) that have required changes to HDEO's that may have rendered the newer versions of them no longer optimal for our use. Using a JASO MA rated oil makes all of the confusion and doubt go away and stay away. Without it, you can study, evaluate, postulate, and then pontificate on all the reasons why you think that thus-or-so would provide equivalent performance in a wet clutch engine. If you do all of that very, very well, you MIGHT even be correct.

It goes like this... Roughly a third of each quart of oil is the additive package. Within that third of a quart, the oil engineers (the real tribologists) attempt to tailor the oil for the specific application. If it happens to also work well for some other application, well great, but that wasn't the point of the exercise. If the needs of the targeted application change, they will likely reformulate the oil without regard for or obligation to the tag-along market. "Backwards compatible" only means backwards compatible with the intended market. It is left for you to determine whether the backwards compatibility carries over to your tag-along use. If the targeted application is specialized and the market is small, the economics will reflect that. It costs more to cater to a small market than a large one. Some say that it is all marketing and greedy oil companies, but it is not. It is an attempt to provide the highest level of performance for the intended application.

 

[st11ray]

Warren Oil Company makes Costco branded oil. Just so you know.

 

[970mike]

I can still find Delo 400LE at our Costco down south from my location, the one we normally go to just north does not carry it anymore.

 

[ST Gui]

I can still find Delo 400LE at our Costco down south from my location, the one we normally go to just north does not carry it anymore.

I find this with a lot of Costco products– routinely carried at one store not to be found ever at another. I assume they tailor their stock to the local customer base.

 

[MaxPete]

 

[caldercay]

Warren Oil Company makes Costco branded oil. Just so you know.

Doesn't tell *me* anything interesting or significant (plus I have no idea what a "costco" is) ...

I'll stick with T6 : )

And now ...

 

[Larry Fine]

(plus I have no idea what a "costco" is) ...

Really?! https://www.costco.com/

 

[bdalameda]

This is the sole reason the big-4 Japanese motorcycle manufacturers established the JASO MA rating program. It wasn't established by the oil companies so that they could charge more for ordinary oil, it was established by the motorcycle manufacturers after the advent of energy conserving oil started presenting problems when used in motorcycles with wet clutches. Since then, many arm-chair tribologists have devoted their considerable energies and talents to finding equivalent unrated oils that are a few bucks cheaper. Many ended up with diesel HDEO and have used it very successfully for years. Some HDEO's even self-certified that they were JASO MA, though none are listed by JALOS as MA compliant. In the current environment, there are major changes to higher tier diesel emissions technologies (as @dduelin pointed out) that have required changes to HDEO's that may have rendered the newer versions of them no longer optimal for our use. Using a JASO MA rated oil makes all of the confusion and doubt go away and stay away. Without it, you can study, evaluate, postulate, and then pontificate on all the reasons why you think that thus-or-so would provide equivalent performance in a wet clutch engine. If you do all of that very, very well, you MIGHT even be correct.

It goes like this... Roughly a third of each quart of oil is the additive package. Within that third of a quart, the oil engineers (the real tribologists) attempt to tailor the oil for the specific application. If it happens to also work well for some other application, well great, but that wasn't the point of the exercise. If the needs of the targeted application change, they will likely reformulate the oil without regard for or obligation to the tag-along market. "Backwards compatible" only means backwards compatible with the intended market. It is left for you to determine whether the backwards compatibility carries over to your tag-along use. If the targeted application is specialized and the market is small, the economics will reflect that. It costs more to cater to a small market than a large one. Some say that it is all marketing and greedy oil companies, but it is not. It is an attempt to provide the highest level of performance for the intended application.

I agree with you about everything you've said except for one thing. I have developed lubricants for the company I work for that we have custom blended for us for certain applications. You would be very surprised about how much additive is added to each quart of oil. At most maybe the total additive content per gallon of oil will be 2-3 oz. tops. I was really surprised as I was working at blending formulations to see how little additives make up the total amount of the lubricant.

 

[ST Gui]

I don't care what anybody says — that right there is hysterically funny!

 

[ST1100Y]

No, this is amusing:

Since then, many arm-chair tribologists have devoted their considerable energies and talents to finding equivalent unrated oils that are a few bucks cheaper.

 

[Pete in PA]

All this year and onward I'm using this: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Castrol-Actevo-4T-10W-40-Part-Synthetic-Motorcycle-Oil-1-Gallon/395747153

Walmart has the best price I've found, if anywhere cheaper let me know.

It's approved, shifts well, price is OK, etc. Just ordered 2 gallons so shipping is free.

 

[mello dude]

I wonder what is meant by the words "Part Synthetic"? A dino/synthetic blend?

 

[Igofar]

Probably means they had a bunch of oil to sell that was not moving well, so they added a cap full of synthetic oil to it so they could call it "part synthetic"and let marketing do the rest
My latest UOA results using HDEO (Valvoline Premium Blue 15w-40) in my ST came back with outstanding results.
Its still rated for use with Gasoline engines, unlike most of the Shell Rotella T stuff lately.
I'm even using it in the Primary on my Screaming Eagle Road King, and have very good clutch engagement.
I don't use it to save a few bucks, I use it because the UOA results come back with better results than just about all of the MC specific oils.
So if its watered down, and has less of the good stuff in it as suggested, why are the results still better than the MC specific stuff?

 

[caldercay]

I don't use it to save a few bucks

It's comparably priced with T6 and DELO, correct? At least that's what I see online.

So if its watered down, and has less of the good stuff in it as suggested, why are the results still better than the MC specific stuff?

Because it's fully endorsed by Cummins? : )

 

[SMSW]

Better question is which part is synthetic? The last drop? The first pour? Maybe the cap of the container?

 

[rwthomas1]

I find the ST shifting fairly notchy. It is unforgiving of anything less than perfect technique. Using 5w-40 Rotella that seems to have a good following. 25+yrs ago, Golden Spectro made a huge difference in any bike I used it in. Made shifts buttery smooth. Pricey though. Dino, synthetic, whatever. I don't care if it's made of liquefied squirrels. If it protects the engine, and smooths the shifts, I'll buy it. Considering a motorcycle oil next time around, just to see if things smooth out.

RT