Removing the ABS/TCS from 1995 ST1100

[Al st1100]

RWT, I think you're saying to remove/disable the lights. But aren't they the very thing any examiner will notice when they turn the ignition on. The lights should come on, if they don't then surely it would be a fail as the ABS must be faulty.
Upt'North.

so what happens when a BMW comes in and upon starting the brake failure light flashes until it's driven.

 

[Gerhard]

so what happens when a BMW comes in and upon starting the brake failure light flashes until it's driven.

I don’t think the brake warning flashes till it’s driven, the tire pressure monitor will until the units in the tire wake up from a few wheel rotations.

 

[Upt' North]

so what happens when a BMW comes in and upon starting the brake failure light flashes until it's driven.

Exactly, the light works as it should.
If it doesn't, it's out.

 

[Al st1100]

Exactly, the light works as it should.
If it doesn't, it's out.

wait if the abs light goes out on start up it doesn't work? My manual states it will continue flashing till repaired. So in a testing lane how do you know the abs works? so the inspector has you start the bike sees brake failure flashing and fails you. makes sense. I have never had a bike inspected, I presume they don't ride it. Nothing I read states abs must work, how would they test traction control?

 

[Garry_Coates]

Hi all, as this topic has morphed into a discussion on roadworthys I will provide my investigations to date and leave it at that:

1. I have talked to classic bike shops and confirmed that my ST1100 would not pass a roadworthy with the ABS is it stands. These guys do their best in getting early model bikes with ABS through, but have to provide video evidence of its operation. They gave me some suggestions in confidence that I will follow up on.
2. If I remove the ABS/TCS components I should get a roadworthy and then adjust the registration and insurance accordingly. This is to ensure no inconsistenies in case of a serious accident. Third party insurance is a significant safety net in Australia.
3. Removing the ABS/TCS could result in the bike being considered as "modified". I would need a VASS engineer to certify it (at cost) before a roadworthy would be given
4. Taking my bike for a roadworthy with ABS or with ABS removed (and no certification) would need a very understanding shop prepared to fudge things little. Then it would all the depend on Vic Roads (Gov Dept) playing hardball.
5. Removal of the ABS/TCS on a ST1100 has been done before. One example I can find on this forum is in NZ. Refer: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/st1100-abs-or-no-abs.167483/
"Someone mentioned their ABS failed so they removed it. I've ridden a bike like that here in New Zealand. To remain legal and pass the safety inspection all ABS components have to be removed and there must be no sign that the bike could possibly have ABS in order to pass the safety inspection. Honda charged about $NZ2000 for this work on the bike I rode, including new certification for the modified bike".

So in conclusion as nobody has done it here I will leave it at that on this website.

Regards
Garry

 

[jfheath]

Changing a tyre profile that causes the computer to be incapable of comparing speeds of front and rear wheels - would that also count as a modification ?

Would it not be easier to fix the ABS ?

In the Uk there is a rule. If it is fitted, it has to work. If you remove everything and those lights on the dash still illuminate. Or if you have an ABS control unit fitted......?

 

[Garry_Coates]

Hi jfheath, in reply:
1. Changing a tyre profile that causes the computer to be incapable of comparing speeds of front and rear wheels - would that also count as a modification ? Anwser: Yes would require atleast one standard tyre for roadworthy based my investigation. Problem only occurs when there are two non-std tyres. Correction: Please review thread "ST1100 ABS1 Traction Control Issues"

2. Would it not be easier to fix the ABS ? Answer: No - cost prohibitive, refer: www.cmsnl.com for costs on modulators and ECU. Only 1 person in Canada with a track record of modulator repairs

3. In the Uk there is a rule. If it is fitted, it has to work. If you remove everything and those lights on the dash still illuminate. Or if you have an ABS control unit fitted......? Answer: Australia is similar to NZ so point 5 above applies. All ABS components removed and engineer certified. I would pull circuits in dash as suggested by Uncle Phil.

regards
Garry

 

[Upt' North]

Changing a tyre profile that causes the computer to be incapable of comparing speeds of front and rear wheels - would that also count as a modification ? Would it not be easier to fix the ABS ? In the Uk there is a rule. If it is fitted, it has to work. If you remove everything and those lights on the dash still illuminate. Or if you have an ABS control unit fitted......? John, I don't disagree about the, if fitted must work rule. But that's kinda the point, if it's removed correctly it's not fitted. By correctly I mean the brakes would pass an MOT subject to age related regulations. ABS being a fairly new rule in the rule book. There are many bikes, mainly Beemers that are passing MOT's and are roadworthy with ABS removal. I think latest MOT regs prohibit warning lights of any type. Upt'North.

 

[Upt' North]

Hi all, as this topic has morphed into a discussion on roadworthys I will provide my investigations to date and leave it at that:

1. I have talked to classic bike shops and confirmed that my ST1100 would not pass a roadworthy with the ABS is it stands. These guys do their best in getting early model bikes with ABS through, but have to provide video evidence of its operation. They gave me some suggestions in confidence that I will follow up on.
2. If I remove the ABS/TCS components I should get a roadworthy and then adjust the registration and insurance accordingly. This is to ensure no inconsistenies in case of a serious accident. Third party insurance is a significant safety net in Australia.
3. Removing the ABS/TCS could result in the bike being considered as "modified". I would need a VASS engineer to certify it (at cost) before a roadworthy would be given
4. Taking my bike for a roadworthy with ABS or with ABS removed (and no certification) would need a very understanding shop prepared to fudge things little. Then it would all the depend on Vic Roads (Gov Dept) playing hardball.
5. Removal of the ABS/TCS on a ST1100 has been done before. One example I can find on this forum is in NZ. Refer: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/st1100-abs-or-no-abs.167483/
"Someone mentioned their ABS failed so they removed it. I've ridden a bike like that here in New Zealand. To remain legal and pass the safety inspection all ABS components have to be removed and there must be no sign that the bike could possibly have ABS in order to pass the safety inspection. Honda charged about $NZ2000 for this work on the bike I rode, including new certification for the modified bike".

So in conclusion as nobody has done it here I will leave it at that on this website.

Regards
Garry

Garry, good luck with your work.
There is a strong sentiment here that things should be kept original with regards to the mechanicals of the bike, when others have raised issues around the ability to change original functionality it is never met well.
This is kinda strange when it seems OK to change everything else on the bikes......bar heights, seats, screens, luggage, shocks, fork springs, tyre types etc.
As someone who has tried and succeeded in keeping older motorcycles on the road it becomes increasingly difficult to keep them standard and it also becomes ever more expensive.
As someone who rode a non ABS pan for many years and miles (standard) I can say it is one of the safest non ABS bikes to ride, it's not easy to lock brakes on such a behemoth. The only time I ever locked them in that time was when I intended too and like I say you had to try hard.
Upt'North.

 

[Garry_Coates]

Thanks Upt' North. My 27 year old St1100 is a long term friend. Just got back from a ride tonight to test a few things and I must admit real affection fo it.
Panic braking is the biggest concern with no ABS. Especially from animals or other vehicles. A friend in hospital yesterday from two unleashed dogs running across his path. He does over 50,000km a year so is no novice.
It is a shame you cannot buy an ABS kit that can be fitted to any bike. Cornering ABS is what we need.
Regards
Garry

 

[Upt' North]

Thanks Upt' North. My 27 year old St1100 is a long term friend. Just got back from a ride tonight to test a few things and I must admit real affection fo it.
Panic braking is the biggest concern with no ABS. Especially from animals or other vehicles. A friend in hospital yesterday from two unleased dogs running across his path. He does over 50,000km a year so is no novice.
It is a shame you cannot buy an ABS kit that can be fitted to any bike. Cornering ABS is what we need.
Regards
Garry

Cornering ABS, great bit of kit. We can dream.
You may already do it but I use a technique beaten into me in training. When using the brakes ALWAYS increase pressure slowly. That is everytime you use them. This will become instinctive eventually and will hopefully prevent a locked front wheel by pre loading the front suspension.
This is just as important with ABS to reduce braking distance. A snatched ABS brake will still attempt to lock and extend stopping distances as it releases and reapplies. Pre loading assists regardless of electronic assistance or not.
Upt'North.

 

[rwthomas1]

RWT, I think you're saying to remove/disable the lights. But aren't they the very thing any examiner will notice when they turn the ignition on. The lights should come on, if they don't then surely it would be a fail as the ABS must be faulty.
Upt'North.

That is easy. I've "heard" that some people use things like this to turn warning lights on or off....

Amazon.com

If "option 5" is the way forward, then remove everything ABS related. That shouldn't be that difficult. Tedious, but not difficult. Does the registration say ABS equipped? I'm wondering how they would know what a 20+yr old machine had on it. I understand the "keep it stock and functional" mentality but we are at the point where doing so will retire the machine due to cost alone.

 

[Garry_Coates]

Hi Guys,
thanks for the feedback. Now that I have confirmed that ABS removal is doable and how to get a RWC in that instance, it will be left on hold until required. With the traction control problem sorted it is less irritating.

I am not sure if this is universal but for Australia the VIN identifies which Honda ST1100 model has ABS by using the production sequence number. Those starting with 55 are ST1100 ABS versions.

Refer: https://www.hondashop.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Honda-Motorcycle-Model-ID-Chart.pdf

For 1995:
ST1100AS SC26U*SM550001~
ST1100PS SC26U*SM580001~
ST1100S SC26U*SM500001~

This maybe a great chart for future reference.

Regards
Garry