Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 20??

[GlenT]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Well except for the probable failure of the windscreen mechanism, the high probability of leaking hoses, weeping water pump and premature failure of the rear wheel bearings, it's almost a perfect bike.

See, this illustrates my point perfectly. Lube the windscreen track once in a while, replace the OEM hose clamps with those friction locking clamps from Napa, stick your fingers in the hole when you are changing the rear tire and replace the bearings if they feel notchy -- all of these are simple fixes. And the total cost of all the aforementioned fixes is about $100.

If we rode BMWs, we'd be talking about expensive final drive rebuilds and failed ABS units, and undiagnosed computer issues and seized brake calipers and how our camp reading light that plugs into the accessory socket on the bike goes off after 10 minutes because the CANBUS computer cuts the power automatically -- all these interesting and expensive problems that the ST13 simply does not have.

Now I DO have a fuel gauge problem, so that DOES make me fell a little better. Just like my friend with the RT. Except that my problem is likely fixable for about $100, where his problem remains after the several visits to the dealer. So, I guess I'll have to enjoy it while it lasts...

In the 70's they did a study on productivity. They made incremental improvements in the work environment for factory workers (added better lighting, piped in music, etc.) and then measured their productivity after each change. And with every improvement, the productivity went up. And then they started removing the improvements. And productivity continued to improve, even though workers were no longer as happy.

It turns out that change itself was the important factor, not whether the change was actually benefitial, because it prevented boredom.

 

[ChucksKLRST]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

So I've been thinking for months now about this. The questoin I ponder the most is "If Honda annouced an ST replacment this fall, would I buy one?" The thought spawns a number of follow-on questions rolling through my head...

• What is wrong with my current ST1300? (Almost nothing)
• Why am I considering whether to keep or sell it? (Partly other interests and time consumption, but overall I don't know why, but I am thinking about it)
• Is the bike boring to me? (Yes; the thought of it doesn't get me excited and alone cause me to ride. No; it is fun and exciting while riding it. )
• What color is the ST replacement? (LOL)
• How much does the replacement weight? (I'm tired of the weight!) And its cost? (I won't shell out big bucks to have one)
• Why not go with the ST13 replacment by Yami? (Learning a new bike; concern about buzziness)
• What kind of pie goes best with fall rides? (Trick question! Peach Cobbler. )

I have almost the same concerns with my 2003 120k mile ST1300. I am getting a bit tired of silver/gray and black motorcycles. I did get some excitement and was not bored with my Blue and White DR650, this past week.

 

[sherob]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I have almost the same concerns with my 2003 120k mile ST1300. I am getting a bit tired of silver/gray and black motorcycles. I did get some excitement and was not bored with my Blue and White DR650, this past week.

This subject is going downhill... oh, wait... that was something else... never mind. :

 

[SupraSabre]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I have almost the same concerns with my 2003 120k mile ST1300. I am getting a bit tired of silver/gray and black motorcycles. I did get some excitement and was not bored with my Blue and White DR650, this past week.

That's the answer! Change the color of your bike and you will be happy!

I really like the blue on the 2010!

 

[George]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

That's the answer! Change the color of your bike and you will be happy!

I really like the blue on the 2010!

Nope, changing color wont do it. My silver went to blue then back to silver. Still has well over 200,000 miles and looks kind'a tired.

 

[DaveST]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I have almost the same concerns with my 2003 120k mile ST1300. I am getting a bit tired of silver/gray and black motorcycles. I did get some excitement and was not bored with my Blue and White DR650, this past week.

So bored with the DR you decided to take a hike instead? I'm glad everything worked out with that event.

 

[DaveST]

Re: Replacement for ST1300 ?

Huh? I acknowledged the humor and didn't explain it. Big difference.

In my akward way I was thanking you that you got my "joke". Ain't really a joke though, Yamaha has a nice bike there.

 

[Badger]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

There are so many BMW's are sold, second hand sale prices are highest amongst all, we can not just say "they have a lot of problems" and get rid of them. Many people I know with BMW's have no problem at all. However the important thing is something else. They had the BEST adventure bike GS, sold more than any YET they upgraded it even it didn't needed. They come up with better, faster, more capable bike. They UPGRADED it.
St had no upgrades what so ever in 10 years which is STUPID, plain and clear STUPID.
I agree that BMW has its own negatives too. They add 2k to the base price no matter what or you wont get the half of the bike but they do some things right.
St as Mellow said not a fire road bike. So it needs a little diet since it is the heaviest in the tourer class (compared with kawa, yama, bmw tourers not the gold wing).
Honda doesn't have to come up with something awkward, all needed is some upgrades to make the crowd happy.
Maybe increase the efficiency of the engine, increase the compression ratio and put more hp.
Bring the single side arm and reduce unsprung, spinning weight. If the bike can be brought to lower 650lb range, maybe it can handle some fire roads, who knows.
I love honda product but sometimes like people, companies can make bad choices...
Cruise control, traction control, TPMS, radio and controls, led lights all over to reduce electric consumption, an installed volt meter, GEAR INDICATOR would not hurt, I believe.
Just saying BMW brakes down a lot is not saving Honda's rear end. If I have the money, I would have no problem getting the gs.

 

[GlenT]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

There are so many BMW's are sold, second hand sale prices are highest amongst all, we can not just say "they have a lot of problems" and get rid of them. Many people I know with BMW's have no problem at all. However the important thing is something else. They had the BEST adventure bike GS, sold more than any YET they upgraded it even it didn't needed. They come up with better, faster, more capable bike. They UPGRADED it.
St had no upgrades what so ever in 10 years which is STUPID, plain and clear STUPID.
I agree that BMW has its own negatives too. They add 2k to the base price no matter what or you wont get the half of the bike but they do some things right.
St as Mellow said not a fire road bike. So it needs a little diet since it is the heaviest in the tourer class (compared with kawa, yama, bmw tourers not the gold wing).
Honda doesn't have to come up with something awkward, all needed is some upgrades to make the crowd happy.
Maybe increase the efficiency of the engine, increase the compression ratio and put more hp.
Bring the single side arm and reduce unsprung, spinning weight. If the bike can be brought to lower 650lb range, maybe it can handle some fire roads, who knows.
I love honda product but sometimes like people, companies can make bad choices...
Cruise control, traction control, TPMS, radio and controls, led lights all over to reduce electric consumption, an installed volt meter, GEAR INDICATOR would not hurt, I believe.
Just saying BMW brakes down a lot is not saving Honda's rear end. If I have the money, I would have no problem getting the gs.

BMWs are popular DESPITE the fact that their reputation for reliability has become largely a myth in the past 10 years. The GS gets updated BECAUSE it is the top-selling adventure bike. I read recently that BMW has sold 120,000 GS's. If Honda were selling that many ST's they would surely update it.

In my opinion, Honda has not updated the ST13 because they don't see enough improvement in market share in order to justify the cost of updating it. You are saying that if Honda updated the ST13, they would sell more of them. I'm saying that they have not updated the ST13 because they never sold ENOUGH of them to begin with.

 

[Bigmak96]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I'm saying that they have not updated the ST13 because they never sold ENOUGH of them to begin with.

By Jove,,,I think you've got it. Sadly,, not enough love the ST like we do.

 

[Shuey]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

BMWs are popular DESPITE the fact that their reputation for reliability has become largely a myth in the past 10 years.

2013 IBR . . . another rider gets saved by a caring dealer in Atlanta after his Final Drive went out. He unfortunately wasn't carrying a spare final drive like several of the other riders!

Shuey

 

[dduelin]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

120,000 since 1981.

Fact is BMW was forced into upgrading the boxer one more time because the air/oil cooled flat twin is at the end of its life span. It would not pass the next round of EC emission requirements. Maybe now you can own a boxer that does not burn oil between changes. They also upgraded to a wet clutch shared sump engine/transmission design because the clunky engine speed dry clutch box of rocks transmission that normally breaks or blows its oil seals between 50 and 75k is far inferior to a wet clutch design everyone else uses and which is in every other BMW model designation designed since 1993. BTW, as heavy as the ST1300 is ..... the K16GT unseated it as the heaviest bike in the sport touring class.

Typical for BMW the long list of improvements on the GSW include thin film switch gear which is failing at high rates on brand new bikes. Something else to add to the list of trouble prone items on BMWs.

 

[Badger]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

So all the BMW owners must be crazy to not to understand that they are buying crap?

If st1300 is not selling why produce? Improvement expensive? How much it will cost them to put a gear indicator? Heated grips? Half way decent seat? How much it will cost to make the handle bars a bit higher so people doesn't have to spend 300 dollars to extend them?
Do we have Honda employees here posting to protect Honda at any cost? I will trade my st to a gs any given day. If any one willing, i will love to have something burns oil, blows shaft yada yada yada... Tell them to the millions buying those bikes but not the st, the dinosaur.

 

[dduelin]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

.......yada yada yada... Tell them to the millions buying those bikes but not the st, the dinosaur.

It took BMW nearly 70 years to build 2 million total bikes. They don't sell in the millions and that is what you don't seem to understand. Get your facts in order. BMW sells about 100,000 bikes a year around the globe and a few more than 10,000 a year in the USA. That is less than 2 % of the US market share and 1 % of the global market. They are a niche builder that sells to a small number of well defined people. Honda sells more than 2 million motorcycles a year globally and 250,000 last year in the USA. The ST rider does not represent the typical Honda buyer and is a very small part of Honda's market worldwide yet a new ST would represent a large investment in R & D at a time when the market for large expensive bike virtually collapsed after 2008 and is yet slow to rebound - and in the case of the sport tourer continues to shrink as demand for big adventure bikes grows. Many if us including me want Honda to update the ST platform. No disagreement there I just don't think I would if I was Honda so what they have (haven't done) makes sense. You know the ST1100 was unchanged for 12 years.

 

[Blrfl]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

So all the BMW owners must be crazy to not to understand that they are buying crap?

There are people roaming the planet who buy things because of the cachet carried by the brand and/or they like to be able to brag about how much money they were able to spend on it. Some of those people understand that they're buying all of that trouble-free German engineering and are willing to put up with it. Some don't.

If st1300 is not selling why produce?

In case you haven't noticed, Honda hasn't imported any STs to North America for two of the last four years. Even when they are importing them, it's only a few hundred and has been that way since 2008. This bike hasn't been a big seller since day one; in 2003 and 2004 they only imported about 2,000 each year.

Honda hasn't leaked enough information about how the ST sells in other markets, but I'd have to guess that it's enough to justify continued production. With the tooling and support already in place for the model, it doesn't cost them that much to do small production runs, and every unit sold helps defray the cost of R&D.

Improvement expensive?

Yes, it is. Do you have any idea what's involved in making even minor changes to a product like this?

How much it will cost to make the handle bars a bit higher so people doesn't have to spend 300 dollars to extend them?

It can't cost enough as far as I'm concerned. Forcing everyone to take a change to make the bike fit you better means I have to spend a lot more than $300 to get them lowered into a position that fits me better. You make it sound as if everyone who buys an ST automatically installs risers, which isn't the case if the bikes I see at RTEs are any indication.

Do we have Honda employees here posting to protect Honda at any cost?

Yes, because Honda really needs "protecting" on some forum on the Internet devoted to one of their niche products.

--Mark

 

[Shuey]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Why buy a BMW? The cool emblem and . . . the price!

In general, people perceive value based on the opinion of others. I'll illustrate with a short story.

From an early age I was interested drawing, but soon realized I was always trying to draw exactly what I saw and could do better with a camera. So I switched mediums. Took lots of photography courses and lots of pictures. While in the service stationed in Germany, friends admired some of my work and encouraged me to sell them at our military club craft fairs. Flattering, so I did. I was honored that anyone one even want one of my pics, so I sold them pretty much for the cost of the framing . . . and didn't sell many. After two of these craft fairs, I raised the price from $20-$100 a piece based on size and . . . sold lots! People bought them because they were now "more valuable."

The BMW logo stands for 'consistently more expensive across all production lines,' and . . . therefore it must be 'better.'

FWIW,
Shuey

PS: The emblem is way cool . . . AND it's German!

 

[STPaulK]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

See, this illustrates my point perfectly. Lube the windscreen track once in a while, replace the OEM hose clamps with those friction locking clamps from Napa, stick your fingers in the hole when you are changing the rear tire and replace the bearings if they feel notchy -- all of these are simple fixes. And the total cost of all the aforementioned fixes is about $100.

Yet every FJR and Connie owner I know has never had to bother with lubing their windscreen track, tighten their hose clamps or replace their prematurely toasted rear wheel bearings. Plus I don't view that windscreen lubing as the ultimate way to retard the failure since many owners have lost their windscreen gears, even after performing diligent maintenance.

You are able to perform the "simple fixes" yet this doesn't escape the fact that it's a hassle to disassemble plastic to get at the windscreen tracks and hose clamps. The bearings are not simple to guys who don't have a drift or wherewithal to tackle a bearing replacement. I bought a bike to ride, not one that I have to spend half a day tearing into the inner reaches to repair stuff that could have been designed better right out of the gate (or with update.) BTW, I also forgot the stuck thermostat.

If we rode BMWs, we'd be talking about expensive final drive rebuilds and failed ABS units, and undiagnosed computer issues and seized brake calipers and how our camp reading light that plugs into the accessory socket on the bike goes off after 10 minutes because the CANBUS computer cuts the power automatically -- all these interesting and expensive problems that the ST13 simply does not have.

This is why I didn't buy a BMW. But I don't go into a dealer looking for a bike that is relative to BMW. Honda has a reputation of apple pie wholesome quality but the ST1300 comes off as no different than any other ordinary bike when it comes to quality. Yes, better than BMW but it's not the best quality out there either. If I had a chance to buy a new Sport Tourer right now, it would be a new FJR.

In the 70's they did a study on productivity. They made incremental improvements in the work environment for factory workers (added better lighting, piped in music, etc.) and then measured their productivity after each change. And with every improvement, the productivity went up. And then they started removing the improvements. And productivity continued to improve, even though workers were no longer as happy.

It turns out that change itself was the important factor, not whether the change was actually benefitial, because it prevented boredom.

I'm not sure I grasp the point here but that's OK.

 

[jonjonboo]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

:BDH: passed the half way point to 100 post

 

[sherob]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

:BDH: passed the half way point to 100 post

... the other 441 are pretty much the same as the first 100... pretty sure... all guesses... nothing concrete... all wishes... nothing concrete... go ride.

 

[jonjonboo]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

... the other 441 are pretty much the same as the first 100... pretty sure... all guesses... nothing concrete... all wishes... nothing concrete... go ride.

I meant pages---sorry bout dat, I come here for amusement as much as I do for actual constructive intel.