rock hard front suspension

[Esti1300]

different weights of oil in each fork, as their internals are different and work more efficiently that way. Left fork gets a 10W-15W weight, right fork gets 7W weight,

Excellent. More half empty bottles of oil on the shelf that will take forever to get through

 

[Slydynbye]

Whereas, I had cupping of the front tire (Metzeler) at 36 psi, but cured it with 38 psi. I can't imagine that two psi is going to make the ride "bloody hard", as I believe the OP was insinuating is his problem.

Once you have a TPMS you realize how much it changes when underway and on Hotter days. Two pounds is a minor difference.

 

[SMSW]

As I recall from other threads, a rough consensus was fork oil should be changed every 20K miles. @dwalby's every other tire change (front) is roughly in the ballpark, and I would be willing to bet a beer that @Igofar agrees that it is good preventative maintenance to pull the forks and check out the front end when changing the fork oil. If nothing else, aligning them per the manual every 20 to 25 K seems to me eminently reasonable. More than a few of us also would service the front brakes when we do a tire change.

I have no idea how much preventative maintenance @Mckeith, the OP does, but I suggest he read the link below. Even if he has had his bike for years, the items mentioned are a good review of what our older bikes need. I suspect a lot of our troubles with these bikes are self inflicted by putting off routine work on the bikes.

Article - Maintenance Items Needed for a New (old) Bike | Articles

This article is the result of collaboration by Andrew Shadow, CYYJ, jfheath, Max Pete, SMSW, and SupraSabre. Igofar’s list was copied from the first link listed above. Click on the attached file. This one is V.11; in the future, any changes will be noted in the title on the first page as the...

www.st-owners.com

 

[rwthomas1]

I typically change the fork oil every other tire change, so I already have the wheel off the bike to begin with, forgot to mention that the last time. That leaves only the fender bolts and triple clamp bolts, hardly any extra work.

I like having the forks removed to pump all the old oil out, makes it easy to do by hand with them on the bench.

edit: even if you don't have the wheel already off for a tire change, removing 4 bolts for the calipers, one screw for the speedo cable, and the axle bolt takes only a couple minutes. Everyone has their own style, but to me those items are easily removed in very little time.

Well, it's understandable at tire change time. I used to be a chronic over-repairer. You know, the type that starts with a spark plug change and ends up rebuilding the engine? Yeah, now I remove as little as possible whilst still getting maintenance done. I'm loathe to start turning bolts on ancillary systems simply because if they are working correctly, at best they will be working correctly when I'm done. At worst, I've broken bolts, stripped screws, dropped and lost stuff, and reassembled things just a bit off. I'm merely pointing out that this can be done, and with relative speed, and minimal invasiveness. You wanna go whole hog, go for it.

I know people who let the oil drain "overnight" to get it ALL out. But I doubt that getting the last ounce of motor oil, or fork oil for that matter will make any difference at all. Certainly not one that could be felt, noticed or measured. Granted, I used to enjoy turning wrenches, but with precious little time to myself, I just need to get it done as efficiently as possible.

The OP said nothing about changing tires. Again, loathe to tear a front end off just to change fork oil. And I can't really see how forks go "out of alignment" on their own. If they are aligned, and the bike is acting normally, why mess with it?

RT

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

. Remove the fork caps one by one. The bike will sag forward abruptly with removal of the last, so be ready.

You might risk ripping the brake hose off the master cylinder. Put a mechanical scissors jack under the engine and lower carefully. Hydraulic jacks can be hard to modulate, AMHIKT.
I always pull the forks and drain overnight, you’d be surprised at all the shiny little bits contained in those last little drops. And that’s after flushing and dumping X3 with ATF oil. You’ll never get the correct suspension fluid level without pulling the forks. No shortcuts here, IMHO. FWIW

John

 

[rwthomas1]

You might risk ripping the brake hose off the master cylinder. Put a mechanical scissors jack under the engine and lower carefully. Hydraulic jacks can be hard to modulate, AMHIKT.
I always pull the forks and drain overnight, you’d be surprised at all the shiny little bits contained in those last little drops. And that’s after flushing and dumping X3 with ATF oil. You’ll never get the correct suspension fluid level without pulling the forks. No shortcuts here, IMHO. FWIW

John

OK John, I'll bite. How in the world would a brake hose rip off the master cylinder, when simply allowing the forks to go to full compression position? This is a completely normal position for the suspension to be in, the hose would be at the loosest point. What you describe isn't possible.

You claim I'll never get the correct fluid level. How do you know this? The method I described works perfectly. It takes a bit of care, and if you pay attention as the forks are still angled a bit, this is easily compensated for. Setting the fluid level with the forks on a bench OR installed is irrelevant. Either the fluid is at the correct level or it isn't. If you insisted on flushing, that is easily done as well.

With regard to lowering the bike. I stood to one side, placed a right forearm under the fairing/headlight, while I backed off the last fork cap with my left hand. Right forearm easily handled the weight, and I let the bike settle down. It was a non-event.

RT

 

[rwthomas1]

What I love about posts like these is people who have never tried the method I have described come along and start knocking it. S'alright, I have no doubts in my methods or abilities, I'm well compensated for them in addition to a having a thick skin. If you tried what I suggested you'd find it works just fine.

RT

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

OEM routing of the brake hose is over the fork cap. Lowering the front end extends the fork cap and attached damper rod and spring out of the fork tube and can contact the brake hose. AMHIKT

 

[rwthomas1]

OEM routing of the brake hose is over the fork cap. Lowering the front end extends the fork cap and attached spring out of the fork tube and can contact the brake hose. AMHIKT

Thanks for clarifying, however I can tell you that removing the handlebar and setting it on a towel right behind the triple tree, the hose is no longer a factor.

RT

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

Why remove the handlebars? Just loosen the top triple clamp bolts. What am I missing?

 

[rwthomas1]

Why remove the handlebars? Just loosen the top triple clamp bolts. What am I missing?

I removed the handlebar and set it back, just behind it's mounting point, on a big folded up towel. This got it completely out of my way so I could remove the springs. Much easier to keep things like hoses away when you can just shift the bar a bit. Just remember to put some witness marks on the bar and clamps so it all goes back where you had it.

RT

 

[Bush]

TOM - AYTOE, TOM-AHTOE . . . no matter which way it is done, nothing gets buggered up if proper care and time is taken to perform the job. Haste makes waste.

 

[Mckeith]

1. Put bike on centerstand, put a witness mark on the handlebar at the clamp, place towel on top of bike, unbolt handlebar and move it back/lay it down on towel just behind where it mounts.
2. Loosen the top triple tree fork clamps, and then loosen, but do NOT remove, the top fork caps.
3. Remove the fork caps one by one. The bike will sag forward abruptly with removal of the last, so be ready. The forks are now fully compressed.
4. Remove springs. One side will simply pull out, the other will require compression of the spring to remove the top of the damper rod assembly. Its not difficult, but a second set of hands is almost required. If in doubt, review the procedure for changing springs.
5. Remove the little drain plug bolt at the bottom outside of each fork. The fork oil will drain so have some containers ready.
6. Replace fork drain plugs and tighten, you are now ready to add fresh oil.
7. The manual will specify an oil level measured from the top of the fork tube, with the fork fully compressed. I make a simple gauge with a bit of welding rod, straight wire, etc. Bend a 90* and then measure down and nip off the end at the required length. Now you have a gauge. Add oil until it just touches the tip of that wire. Easy.
8. Reassemble in reverse order.

This is a relatively simple service to perform. Some will insist that the forks need to be removed from the bike, new seals installed, etc. etc. If the fork seals are NOT leaking, don't touch them. The fork bushings will be fine until the seals need replacement, so let it be. Change the oil and go ride.

RT

Great stuff. Thanks a bunch

 

[Mckeith]

In addition to the oil level, it may have had oil put in that is a much heavier weight oil than the forks are designed for. I would suggest draining and refilling with the correct oil rather than just adjusting the level if you are not going to do a full flush.
Check the springs as well. They may have been replaced with much stiffer springs.

Great tip. Worth looking out for. Thanks.

 

[Mckeith]

2 things to try:
Reduce front tire to 38 PSI
Check fork alignment, Do the loosen and bounce procedure.
It probably won't make a big problem go away but could help a little.
You didn't mention which tire is mounted. Or how old it is.

The tires are battlax. Two years of age.

 

[Mckeith]

If you do this there's a good chance the bike will lurch forward enough to fall off the center stand, so this technique is very risky. supporting the front end with a jack makes a lot of sense in this application, then you can gently lower the bike once the caps are removed.

Personally, I always take the fork tubes off the bike when doing any work on them. Its not that much extra work to remove them from the bike.

Is removing the front wheel enough weight reduction to keep the bike on the rear wheel?

 

[Mckeith]

Jack under the engine oil pan, to support the front end. Remove the forks entirely and invert them and pump them to get as much oil out as possible. Just removing the two lower drain bolts won't get all of the old oil out. Use a synthetic fork oil for the refill.

A suspension specialist advised me to use (on my non ABS bike) different weights of oil in each fork, as their internals are different and work more efficiently that way. Left fork gets a 10W-15W weight, right fork gets 7W weight, both filled to the measured level of 7.5 inches from the top of the fork tube, with the spring out and the forks fully compressed.

For an ABS bike, the weight recommendations switch to the opposite forks and the oil level is 7 inches.

Works a treat for me for the last 19 years.

Absolutely worth making a note of. Thank you wery much and to all contributers to this thread.

 

[Mckeith]

When I rebuilt my Nighthawk fork, i added 1/4" more fluid than spec'ed for a firmer compression.

I trust the TPMS while I'm riding, so I may as well trust it for filling, too.

My tires slowly seep air, so I top off to 42F/44R, and top off again when either one gets 4psi lower, about a month or so.

I guess you could say my tires see a range of pressures over time.

I never had to refill air except in the spring. Are you using enough tire greese?

 

[Mckeith]

As I recall from other threads, a rough consensus was fork oil should be changed every 20K miles. @dwalby's every other tire change (front) is roughly in the ballpark, and I would be willing to bet a beer that @Igofar agrees that it is good preventative maintenance to pull the forks and check out the front end when changing the fork oil. If nothing else, aligning them per the manual every 20 to 25 K seems to me eminently reasonable. More than a few of us also would service the front brakes when we do a tire change.

I have no idea how much preventative maintenance @Mckeith, the OP does, but I suggest he read the link below. Even if he has had his bike for years, the items mentioned are a good review of what our older bikes need. I suspect a lot of our troubles with these bikes are self inflicted by putting off routine work on the bikes.

Article - Maintenance Items Needed for a New (old) Bike | Articles

This article is the result of collaboration by Andrew Shadow, CYYJ, jfheath, Max Pete, SMSW, and SupraSabre. Igofar’s list was copied from the first link listed above. Click on the attached file. This one is V.11; in the future, any changes will be noted in the title on the first page as the...

www.st-owners.com

I have had a few bikes but the st1100 is a keeper, so I'm learning as I go along. I will read your recomended link and offer yet another "thanks".

 

[rwthomas1]

Is removing the front wheel enough weight reduction to keep the bike on the rear wheel?

Nope. I loosen all the fasteners, then have a helper sit on the passenger part of the seat. This keeps the front off the ground. Remove the wheel and then put an appropriate support, that just fits, under the ends of the front forks. Have helper slide SLOWLY and GENTLY forward, the bike will rock forward onto support, and then they carefully dismount. Alternatively, a jack can be placed under the oil pan for the same effect.

RT