Sag and “Is my shock working properly?”

[STeveMcD]

Are you the guy that was having a go at me with that weird police impersonation message a while back?
Sorry to high jack the thread for a few seconds.

If so, that's great...
"Do good and love others as yourself"

I like the fact that you're a guy with a 1200RT as his second bike calling me an impersonator for having a bike so old that no one would think it was a police bike by this day and age.

More like "love prospers when you don't behave like an arsehole to someone you don't know the first thing about!

If you aren't that guy then my bad.... but if my memory serves me correctly I think you owe me an apology!

No, I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to.

 

[STeveMcD]

Sorry Steve, I was talking to dduelin.
I think he was pretty rude to me a while back.
It might not have been him. But I can't remember. Probably for the best.

On the topic of sag I agree with what dduelin wrote.

The Japanese have a tendency to underestimate the preload settings due to them being slightly more sleek and slender built.
I'm not a 1300 owner so I can't say for sure... But I know the 1100 has that issue too with the stock preload recommendations.

I realized that you weren't referring to me about a minute after I posted, early morning caffeine deficiency.

 

[STeveMcD]

Just read the "Going Dark" thread.

Which will affect handling more, an imperfectly sprung stock bike with a 200 lb rider, or mounting a car tire to the rear and a rear motorcycle tire to the front?

 

[SMSW]

"Operate on a belief system if you will and ignore the facts, if you prefer." and many others of similar ilk.

We all have free will to act as we please, but some things add to community building and some things don't.

I apologize for my post. I was having some second thoughts about this whole thread last night after my last post.
I want to give you my take on what has transpired. You asked for help, were given some very good feedback, and you pushed back. Maybe we do think too much of our bikes, but from what I've seen, most of the problems with mechanical toys spring from improper setup or maintenance.

 

[STeveMcD]

The good - thank you, truly, for rethinking that post.

The bad - "improper setup or maintenance" - Did Honda knowingly design, market and sell the ST1300 in America with improper suspension for its buyer profile and intended use? It's a sport touring bike with hard bags, that implies carrying weight with grace.

 

[dduelin]

Are you the guy that was having a go at me with that weird police impersonation message a while back?
Sorry to high jack the thread for a few seconds.

If so, that's great...
"Do good and love others as yourself"

I like the fact that you're a guy with a 1200RT as his second bike calling me an impersonator for having a bike so old that no one would think it was a police bike by this day and age.

More like "love prospers when you don't behave like an arsehole to someone you don't know the first thing about!

If you aren't that guy then my bad.... but if my memory serves me correctly I think you owe me an apology!

I have no idea what you are talking about. Elaborate on the offensive message if necessary but I've never PM messaged you and have publically replied only a handful of times if that to your threads.

 

[dduelin]

The good - thank you, truly, for rethinking that post.

The bad - "improper setup or maintenance" - Did Honda knowingly design, market and sell the ST1300 in America with improper suspension for it's buyer profile and intended use? It's a sport touring bike with hard bags, that implies carrying weight with grace.

Well lets see, at the spring 2002 public model release of the ST1300 there was immediate reaction in the press on what appeared to be instability issues, the summer 2002 stop sale embargo with the recall and crush destruction of certain bikes in the UK, the swing arm pivot redesign to address reported stability issues, the engine mount bolt retorque safety bulletin from Honda related to fixing instability, the unfortunate 2005 death of a Merseyside police officer and the subsequent UK Coroner's Report that resulted in many law enforcement jurisdictions pulling the ST1300 from use and at least one US rider death that resulted in a lawsuit settled with a NDA. The bike is associated so closely with wobbling and weaving at speed it has it's own Pan Weave nick name for the behavior. Other than that we can't really say Honda knowingly market a bike unsuited for intended use but we could probably say that to a greater degree than it's contemporaries the ST1300 benefits from suspension upgrades.

 

[STeveMcD]

Well lets see, at the spring 2002 public model release of the ST1300 there was immediate reaction in the press on what appeared to be instability issues, the summer 2002 stop sale embargo with the recall and crush destruction of certain bikes in the UK, the swing arm pivot redesign to address reported stability issues, the engine mount bolt retorque safety bulletin from Honda related to fixing instability, the unfortunate 2005 death of a Merseyside police officer and the subsequent UK Coroner's Report that resulted in many law enforcement jurisdictions pulling the ST1300 from use and at least one US rider death that resulted in a lawsuit settled with a NDA. The bike is associated so closely with wobbling and weaving at speed it has it's own Pan Weave nick name for the behavior. Other than that we can't really say Honda knowingly market a bike unsuited for intended use but we could probably say that to a greater degree than it's contemporaries the ST1300 benefits from suspension upgrades.

Makes sense.

Here's what doesn't, why are you here, to remind us how bad a bike it is?

 

[Larry Fine]

Well lets see, at the spring 2002 public model release of the ST1300 there was immediate reaction in the press on what appeared to be instability issues, the summer 2002 stop sale embargo with the recall and crush destruction of certain bikes in the UK, the swing arm pivot redesign to address reported stability issues, the engine mount bolt retorque safety bulletin from Honda related to fixing instability, the unfortunate 2005 death of a Merseyside police officer and the subsequent UK Coroner's Report that resulted in many law enforcement jurisdictions pulling the ST1300 from use and at least one US rider death that resulted in a lawsuit settled with a NDA. The bike is associated so closely with wobbling and weaving at speed it has it's own Pan Weave nick name for the behavior. Other than that we can't really say Honda knowingly market a bike unsuited for intended use but we could probably say that to a greater degree than it's contemporaries the ST1300 benefits from suspension upgrades.

Sounds scarier than the Corvair.

 

[dduelin]

Makes sense.

Here's what doesn't, why are you here, to remind us how bad a bike it is?

It’s not a bad bike. I rode mine nearly to 200,000 miles and the guy that bought it is still using it as a commuter bike nearing 210k. I’m still here on ST-O because it’s a great forum with lots of knowledge on the Honda STs, other motorcycles, and life in general.

I did some suspension upgrades to my 2005 because I wanted to address what I perceived as shortcomings for my use and riding weight. I was apparently not alone as the aftermarket offered the upgrades off the shelf. Suspension tuners saw the need and filled it.

Why are you asking these questions if you don’t expect replies? Just ignore the ones you don’t like.

 

[Larry Fine]

I was in a grumpy mood this morning.

 

[STeveMcD]

It’s not a bad bike. I rode mine nearly to 200,000 miles and the guy that bought it is still using it as a commuter bike nearing 210k. I’m still here on ST-O because it’s a great forum with lots of knowledge on the Honda STs, other motorcycles, and life in general.

I did some suspension upgrades to my 2005 because I wanted to address what I perceived as shortcomings for my use and riding weight. I was apparently not alone as the aftermarket offered the upgrades off the shelf. Suspension tuners saw the need and filled it.

Why are you asking these questions if you don’t expect replies? Just ignore the ones you don’t like.

Thanks,

Problem solved.

 

[Sadlsor]

Tempest in a teapot.
I won't stir this one, but this is out of the realm of standard STOC threads.

 

[dduelin]

I am such an idiot... It was someone else. I am so sorry dduelin
I don't know why on earth my recollection was so off there.
You must have a similar profile.

My bad

No worries my friend. I have been rude to people here but try not to be that way anymore, at least consciously. God knows I fall short of the mark every day.

 

[Kevcules]

No worries my friend. I have been rude to people here but try not to be that way anymore, at least consciously. God knows I fall short of the mark every day.

Hey Dave.....No need to apologize to anyone here. You're by far a very helpful and generous person with all your posts. (as others are) You never direct your posts rudely at anyone IMO, but continue to add your valuable .02 cents and life learnings. That's what a "discussion" forum is for.

More great advice by you...."if you don't like the advice you're given, don't reply"

Dduelin and rude, don't go together.

I've been helped by many people here with my suspension issues, very similar to what the subject of this thread is about, but got quite disappointed after reading all the back and forth foolishness from people just trying to help.
Hopefully the thread starter gets what he wants from his suspension.

 

[STeveMcD]

I’ll be just fine, there was some good info, but s/n was low

 

[STeveMcD]

I stopped while riding today and adjusted the rear preload. I don’t know where it was nor how many turns to get it all the way backed off, but it was a lot. Reset it to 7 clicks and little to no resistance on the first few. The front bobbing over every bump stopped, but the steering wasn’t as quick and there was some looseness in the rear on corner enters, as expected with less preload.

Made some time to fiddle a bit with the rear after riding today, followed Igorfar’s great instructions to clean and fill the preload reservoir with hydraulic jack oil. The only weird thing is that is does not “click” anymore, but the cyliner is clean so I can see where I am and each click was180 anyway, so east to count.

It looks like I’m using about 40-45% of the travel just sitting on the bike when set at the “standard“ line, so it’ll need more. That, and the rebound adjuster, are for tomorrow.

 

[STeveMcD]

The lack of clicking is because I removed the plastic knob and the tiny spring and ball escaped, a search will happen, but it doesn’t really matter

 

[dduelin]

I stopped while riding today and adjusted the rear preload. [Reset it to 7 clicks] …. looks like I’m using about 40-45% of the travel just sitting on the bike when set at the “standard“ line, so it’ll need more. That, and the rebound adjuster, are for tomorrow.

This is understandable. The standard setting is 7 clicks but under an average American rider that will give rider sag far in excess of 30-33%. Maybe 50% or more. That’s what I referred to earlier when I said some will suggest setting up the stock shock with little preload and say it’s a great ride but the shock will be riding on the bump stop a lot of the time if the road isn’t glass smooth. And when the speed is ramped up to supralegal the soft ride destabilizes the bike and feeds the weave that some ST1300s exhibit.

When the preload adjuster is working properly and giving its full adjustment of 10 mm then sufficient preload is available to get rider sag to 33% but when rider weight is removed the shock will top out or nearly so and have insufficient static sag. These are textbook numbers for a spring too soft or inadequate for the rider. The bike can still be ridden hard and will give a good account of itself of course but the sag numbers will never be right. It all depends on what the owner wants out of the suspension.

 

[STeveMcD]

The spring was still in, I found the ball bearing, we’re clicking again!