Sidecar on ST 1300 Fork springs too soft.

[bigbikerrick]

Hello Folks , I have an 05 1300 with a good sized Hannigan sidecar recently installed, and I can tell the front springs are way too soft. Is there a way to increase spring preload by adding a spacer an top of the spring, or heavier springs I can replace the stock ones with? What are the groups recommendations as far as heavier springs?
I am new to the ST 1300, and learning alot reading here, although,this is my 3rd sidecar rig. What an awesome "tug" the ST is!
Thanks alot,
Rick

 

[dduelin]

You can add preload with a spacer on top of the existing spring stack I think your situation calls for skipping that and just replacing the springs with stiffer ones. The stock springs are made for riders under 165 lbs or so. RaceTech, Sonic, and Hyperpro are popular aftermarket spring suppliers. You can probably get someone on the phone at Race Tech https://www.racetech.com/ to discuss your special need.

 

[bigbikerrick]

You can add preload with a spacer on top of the existing spring stack I think your situation calls for skipping that and just replacing the springs with stiffer ones. The stock springs are made for riders under 165 lbs or so. RaceTech, Sonic, and Hyperpro are popular aftermarket spring suppliers. You can probably get someone on the phone at Race Tech https://www.racetech.com/ to discuss your special need.

Thanks Dduelin for the info on available stiffer aftermarket springs, I will check out what they have. I read here that someone also used springs from a ZX 14 in an ST 1300 with good results. They are supposed to be 3/4" longer than the honda oem,and a bit stiffer,as well.
Thanks
Rick.

 

[Bmacleod]

I would see what a spring supplier says. The ZX14 spring doesnt sound practical. If the spring is 3/4" longer, that means it will bind 3/4" sooner ( it gets installed at the same length as the stock spring), all other dimensions being equal. If it is stiffer, there is a chance that the coils could be larger, causing the coils to bind even sooner. Its possible that you could lose up to or more than 1'" of travel. I would be skeptical of this

 

[jfheath]

Good luck with the springs. Adding pre-load doesn't make spring stiffer, it just raises the front a bit so that when the weight is added, they are not as close to the bottom of their travel. I suspect that you actually need the stiffer springs.

I would love to see pics of how you have the sidecar mounted - also how it rides with the normal forks. I rode a couple of motorcycle combination as the only form of family transport for a good many years. I just bolted a sidecar onto a bike. One was a Cossack Ural (which is built for a chair, but on the wrong side), the other was a Yamaha XS650 - about which @MaxPete would probably throw his hands up in horror. They both handled fine - albeit with a steering damper and fairing for the XS650. But I have often been curious about how the Pans would handle without a big front end conversion.

 

[bigbikerrick]

I will try to post some pics later today. I had my son take some, as his phone has a better camera than mine. Hannigan makes quite the professional fixture to allow their sidecar to be mounted on a "Pan". the mount extends all the way across the bottom of the engine,all the way to the front of the fairings nose, where the fixture comes to a triangular point just under the bodywork. It amazes me they could fit all that under there,and you cant see any of it, when the plastic is on. My wife and I took the rig on a 170 mile charity run this weekend , running with a bunch of Harley bagger guys, and those guys like to ride faster than I normally do, especially with a sidecar, but the "pan" had no problem hauling the big Hannigan at 85+ a few times. It was our "maiden voyage" with the new rig, and I was very impressed with the performance of the bike ,and the sidecar.
Rick.

 

[bigbikerrick]

I would see what a spring supplier says. The ZX14 spring doesnt sound practical. If the spring is 3/4" longer, that means it will bind 3/4" sooner ( it gets installed at the same length as the stock spring), all other dimensions being equal. If it is stiffer, there is a chance that the coils could be larger, causing the coils to bind even sooner. Its possible that you could lose up to or more than 1'" of travel. I would be skeptical of this

I agree Sir. There is no sense in experimenting with unknown/unproven springs. I am going to consult with the spring suppliers listed above,and get something correct.
Thanks for the advice
Rick.

 

[MaxPete]

Good luck with the springs. Adding pre-load doesn't make spring stiffer, it just raises the front a bit so that when the weight is added, they are not as close to the bottom of their travel. I suspect that you actually need the stiffer springs.

I would love to see pics of how you have the sidecar mounted - also how it rides with the normal forks. I rode a couple of motorcycle combination as the only form of family transport for a good many years. I just bolted a sidecar onto a bike. One was a Cossack Ural (which is built for a chair, but on the wrong side), the other was a Yamaha XS650 - about which @MaxPete would probably throw his hands up in horror. They both handled fine - albeit with a steering damper and fairing for the XS650. But I have often been curious about how the Pans would handle without a big front end conversion.

GADZOOKS - Heath you complete and utter philistine! How could you violate and defile a saintly Yamaha XS650 with a sidecar?

I am shocked and appalled and so is Aunt Mildred - young man!!

 

[bigbikerrick]

 

[bigbikerrick]

Here are a few more pics, Folks!

 

[dduelin]

That is a beautiful rig.

Standard motorcycle forks are basically at odds with a sidecar. Fork rake and trail combine with lean to go around corners with subtle pressure on the bar ends. When the vehicle doesn’t lean but stays firmly upright it usually takes excessive force to turn it, particularly to the right. Leading link forks are oftentimes substituted in place of original telescoping forks in order to reduce the steering forces required to turn. Spending money on the original forks doesn’t seem to me the thing to do.

 

[Larry Fine]

A couple of alternate front suspension styles:

 

[MaxPete]

Very snazzy indeed - love the matchy-matchy paint job!

....but still trying to wrap my little 1-HP brain around an XS650 sidecar rig.....

Pete

 

[bigbikerrick]

I am really enjoying the ST. What a fine machine! I have a list of little things I want to add to it. A steering damper, is #1. Do you guys know of a good, simple steering stem mounted unit that works on the ST 1300? I dont need alot of damping, just a little will do. Otherwise I could install a VW unit, to the fork leg lower, but I kinda hate to connect it to the lower, but thats all you can do on the ST due to the tupperware.
I want to go darkside on the rear, and a front tire more suitable for a sidecar rig. Some folks mount a bias ply rear tire on the front, but will have to research that.
I will be removing the MCL "wings" highway blades,as they dont work with a sidecar. Too bad as they are beautifully made units.
Those few things should keep me busy for a while,
Rick.

 

[tonythecarguy]

Hyperpro makes a steering damper mounting kit for the st1300. I don't have any experience with sidecar use.

Klaus at EPM is great to work with. http://epmperf.com/hyperpro-motorcycle-steering-damper-with-reactive-safety-control/

 

[bigbikerrick]

Hyperpro makes a steering damper mounting kit for the st1300. I don't have any experience with sidecar use.

Klaus at EPM is great to work with. http://epmperf.com/hyperpro-motorcycle-steering-damper-with-reactive-safety-control/

Thank you, Tony. I appreciate the links,and info. I think the hyperpro will be the cleanest /easiest solution, albeit a bit pricey!
Thanks alot,
Rick.

 

[Flexit]

Hi Rick. As a UK sidecarrist I would normally point you in the direction of the Federation of Sidecar Clubs https://www.facebook.com/groups/245881523066. Plenty of ST1300 sidecar owners in the club.

But as you are based in the US, were you aware of the US equivalent https://sidecar.com/ I'm sure there would be lots of advice available there.

My outfit is different as it leans with the bike and puts very little weight on the frame. I just put spacers in the forks to restore my ride height.

 

[bigbikerrick]

Hi Rick. As a UK sidecarrist I would normally point you in the direction of the Federation of Sidecar Clubs https://www.facebook.com/groups/245881523066. Plenty of ST1300 sidecar owners in the club.

But as you are based in the US, were you aware of the US equivalent https://sidecar.com/ I'm sure there would be lots of advice available there.

My outfit is different as it leans with the bike and puts very little weight on the frame. I just put spacers in the forks to restore my ride height.

Hi Rick. As a UK sidecarrist I would normally point you in the direction of the Federation of Sidecar Clubs https://www.facebook.com/groups/245881523066. Plenty of ST1300 sidecar owners in the club.

But as you are based in the US, were you aware of the US equivalent https://sidecar.com/ I'm sure there would be lots of advice available there.

My outfit is different as it leans with the bike and puts very little weight on the frame. I just put spacers in the forks to restore my ride height.

Hello Flexit. Thank you sir for the links. I will spend some time exploring those sites. I have logged in to Sidecar.com in the past. Lots of great knowledge there! If its not too much trouble, could you post a couple pics of your rig? I have added a 3/4" preload spacer on top of the stock spring"s existing spacer and it helped alot, but I am going to order a pair of the 1.2KG Sonic springs to try out.
Thanks
Rick.

 

[Flexit]

Hello Flexit. Thank you sir for the links. I will spend some time exploring those sites. I have logged in to Sidecar.com in the past. Lots of great knowledge there! If its not too much trouble, could you post a couple pics of your rig? I have added a 3/4" preload spacer on top of the stock spring"s existing spacer and it helped alot, but I am going to order a pair of the 1.2KG Sonic springs to try out.
Thanks
Rick.

Hi Rick

Photos as requested. There are several Flexits in the USA. One owner in particular has become very much an 'aficionado' for the Flexit. The following is a link to one of his articles https://bmwmotorcycletech.info/flexit.htm

Oh, and sorry, my name is Frank

 

[bigbikerrick]

Hi Rick

Photos as requested. There are several Flexits in the USA. One owner in particular has become very much an 'aficionado' for the Flexit. The following is a link to one of his articles https://bmwmotorcycletech.info/flexit.htm

Oh, and sorry, my name is Frank

Hi Frank, Thank you Sir, for the photos,and awesome links to Flexit history,and information. This is all very interesting to me,and I plan on spending some time looking at everything you linked to. Your Flexit rig is beautiful,and so very unique! That windshield....I love it, what a cool design! Its a real shame the joint venture with California sidecars didnt work out long term,and they had a falling out, or we would possibly have availability of to a modern "flexit" today.
Thanks again,
Rick Duarte