SMC Rebuild Kit

[sennister]

Well like the others out there with problems with the rear brake dragging I have traced my problem down to an issue with the SMC Piston getting stuck.

I just got an email from Service Honda today:

HELLO DAVID,

JUST A HEADS UP ON THE ORDER IT SHOULD BE HERE FROM HONDA SOON . BUT 45620-MCS-G03 PISTON SET IS ON BACK ORDER . HONDA DOES NOT SAY WHEN THIS WILL BE IN JUST YET, BUT AS SOON AS IT DOES COME IN FROM HONDA WE WILL SHIP IT . IT IS A NATION WIDE BACK ORDER SO NOBODY CAN GET THIS FROM HONDA, TILL HONDA GETS IT.
I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU A HEADS UP.

474477

POOH

Grrr nation wide back orders. I sent them an email to see if they have the entire assembly but then I need to figure out how to get the left caliper off the subassembly. I don't see how it comes off right now.

My 1300 looks like I ran over an IED with it in the shop and I would love to get it back together. At least I am heading out of town with the family over the weekend so I don't have to look at it. We are taking the cage as everyone is going.

 

[sennister]

Well I got an email from Service Honda. Sounds like it will be at least a week on backorder. However they do have the entire assembly on hand. So I am changing my order to the entire subassembly.

It will cost more but I get my bike back sooner and will make up the difference because it is that much cheaper to ride the ST to work than drive my truck.

No how on earth does the left caliper come off the SMC sub assembly? I have the factory service manual and it just says to take it off. It doesn't go over how one is to do this. There are rubber boots that it rides on. Do I just pull the boots back and pull it off the slides? I will have to go out and look at it again.

 

[1129VLD]

It slides off, just pull it apart once you get the brake lines off.

 

[sennister]

It slides off, just pull it apart once you get the brake lines off.

I have the entire assembly sitting on my work bench. I didn't pull on it too hard as I didn't know how it came apart. As I said the manual wasn't clear. I'll look at it later tonight to see if I can get it off. I didn't mess with it all that much because I was planning on just replacing the piston. I think I will rebuild the old one and keep it as a spare.

 

[Cousin Jack]

I'm in the same state..... I have a new complete assembly, and want to swap it out..... the old one really just slides off? (I'm a nervous wreck; as a bike mechanic I make a damn fine ski patroller! Lol......)

 

[1129VLD]

That's it, just pull it apart.

 

[Cousin Jack]

Well, I did it...sort of..... I put on my new SMC complete assembly (gonna rebuild the old one at my leisure for a spare) and it does, indeed, "just pulls apart." I then bled the system, sort of...... I used the homebuilt reservoir shown below with a Mityvac and followed both the Honda Service Manual (bigger than the King James version of the Bible!) and the "Graphic Novel" PDF procedure so graciously posted by MILEHIGH and featured on this board. But I had trouble maintaining vacuum on the last step of the procedure, bleeding the outer rear nipple and topping off the rear cylinder....

And now I have great front lever action, and a soft rear brake pedal, which comes up to par with two quick jabs. I think it's the result of the difficulty I had with my suction equipment: and I think I have an idea for a restricted flow vacuum cleaner attachment that might solve it. Hope so.

So, a partial success is better than no success.... I'll keep on it, but I truly think the SMC should definitely be in the "known concerns" file.

 

[mitch96]

Hi, Mitch here

Did you ever try back bleeding???

Here is the commercial version:

http://ezebleeder.net/

Just a syringe, some tubing for $25 bucks... you could probably find this stuff local.

From WebBikeWorld:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-technical-articles/bleeding-motorcycle-brakes/bleeding-motorcycle-brakes.htm

- To "reverse bleed" you can buy a large syringe (I bought one for two-strokes at the local motorcycle shop). Partially fill it with brake fluid, attach it with tubing to the bleed screw, open and depress GENTLY. This will force most of the air UP through the line and out at the master cylinder/reservoir. Be careful to use foil or rags around the reservoir as the bubbling air/fluid can splash out.

- If you can't seem to get rid of the air, try depressing the brake lever slightly, crack the banjo bolt at the brake reservoir/master cylinder just enough so fluid begins leaking out, close the banjo and release the lever. This can get rid of air lurking around the banjo.

- It may seem that no matter what you do, the lever stays spongy. Try this: With the reservoir lid off, depress the brake lever halfway and secure it with a Velcro tie, a zip tie, tape or whatever. Leave it overnight. In the morning put the cap back on, take off the tie, put push the bike and pump the lever a couple of times...if you're in luck it will firm up."

Editor's Note: Good tips, thanks! I almost always zip tie the brake lever squeezed tight overnight and forgot to mention that in the article.

 

[Cousin Jack]

Thanks, Mitch......

I bookmarked the article and I will try the syringe method and tying down the pedal overnight.......

 

[mitch96]

The syringe method seems like a easy way to bleed the brakes/change brake fluid on our bikes.
Way too simple... I don't know if it's true or not but some of the articles say this is the way Auto mfg's put fluid into the brakes on the assembly line, from bottom to top to avoid air in the lines. Makes sense as the air WANTS to go up. So just help the air along with a push rather than a pull.

mitch

gee, makes me want to run right out and bleed my brakes and clutch...

 

[sennister]

Hey Cousin Jack, did you replace the washers or whatever they call them on the banjo connections?

I am still waiting on parts myself with no end in sight. Service Honda appears to be back up but I ordered the rebuild kit rather than the entire assembly. The rebuild kit is on backorder once I figured that out and that they had the assembly in stock I tried to change my order but that is when their systems crashed and I don't know where I am at in the process. Grrr.

 

[sennister]

As for reverse bleeding. That is how my father would bleed the brakes on his Cessna. I have thought about it on the ST but with the old 1100 it is so simple I never bothered to try.

 

[Cousin Jack]

Hey Cousin Jack, did you replace the washers or whatever they call them on the banjo connections?

I am still waiting on parts myself with no end in sight. Service Honda appears to be back up but I ordered the rebuild kit rather than the entire assembly. The rebuild kit is on backorder once I figured that out and that they had the assembly in stock I tried to change my order but that is when their systems crashed and I don't know where I am at in the process. Grrr.

Errr....no....I didn't replace the washers on the banjoes...... should I have? Doesn't appear to be leaking. Yet.

Well, I ordered the whole assembly because, as I told you, I was in a hurry....leaving for a cross-continental on either July 1, or July 5. But I'm doubly glad I did, because if the SMC is as bad a design as I think it is, it will be good to have two -- one on the bike working and one off getting rebuilt! When I was a kid, I had a VW microbus which had two engines, one in working and the other all over my bedroom floor being rebuilt! Same principle!

 

[mitch96]

When I was a kid, I had a VW microbus which had two engines, one in working and the other all over my bedroom floor being rebuilt! Same principle!

Bet you kept your bike in the livingroom too, eh??????

mitch

 

[dduelin]

A vacuum bleeder has a hard time pulling fluid through the proportioning valve and long lines to the front calipers. Teflon tape the bleeders for sure then try helping the vacuum pump by pumping the rear brake pedal while the bleeder is cracked open. I can do all of them by myself with a long stick to press down on the pedal from the left side reaching over the tank or seat but it is helpful to have an assistant. (but I never had one). You should never be left with a soft pedal.

 

[sennister]

I only mentioned replacing the seals as the book says to.

I got an email from Service Honda today and hope that the part will ship on Monday. So I should be up and running next week. Oh and I didn't order the seals. I was just wondering how they are holding up if you didn't replace them.

 

[Avtrician]

Just make sure the washers and the contact surfaces are nice n clean, and you should be ok. The washers are soft and deform when done up, so any mismatches will go away. I have done the same thing with car brake systems and havent had any problems.

 

[RaYzerman]

The syringe method seems like a easy way to bleed the brakes/change brake fluid on our bikes.
Way too simple... I don't know if it's true or not but some of the articles say this is the way Auto mfg's put fluid into the brakes on the assembly line, from bottom to top to avoid air in the lines. Makes sense as the air WANTS to go up. So just help the air along with a push rather than a pull.

mitch

gee, makes me want to run right out and bleed my brakes and clutch...

For educational purposes...... In fact, the auto mfg's have "evac and fill" equipment that attaches to the master cylinder and applies a vacuum to remove all air, then releases the required amount of fluid into the reservoir and it is sucked through the lines. There is no bleeding done or necessary.
Same process is used for coolant. Pretty slick and takes only 30 seconds or so.

 

[Cousin Jack]

A vacuum bleeder has a hard time pulling fluid through the proportioning valve and long lines to the front calipers. Teflon tape the bleeders for sure then try helping the vacuum pump by pumping the rear brake pedal while the bleeder is cracked open. I can do all of them by myself with a long stick to press down on the pedal from the left side reaching over the tank or seat but it is helpful to have an assistant. (but I never had one). You should never be left with a soft pedal.

Well, I finally got it done... going off the above quote from dduelin, I hooked up an old Hoover vacuum cleaner and hose to my home-made reservoir, and we tried it again on the back master cylinder....we got a nice steady vacuum on the lines, and by pumping the rear pedal as per the above advice (and using my beloved wife), we ended up with a very nice rear pedal and front lever.....bike rides like new...... The rear rotor is still very warm to the touch, but, I've given it my all. It'll just have to be hottish...... I'm satisfied....

We felt so masterful that we swapped fluid in the clutch line also......



Thanks to all for the advice and knowledge....

 

[sennister]

Well I spoke with Service Honda. They have refunded the SMC rebuild kit and ordered a complete assembly. I though they said they had one on hand. Oh well. Honda said that they did have it on hand and not the rebuild kit so. It should be shipped shortly. Maybe I can get back up and running over the weekend.