Sorry Honda !

Silver Bullet

Retired
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
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629
Location
New London ,Ohio
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2020 Tracer 900 GT
After owning Hondas since 1974 I ended my loyalty. Now retired and looking for something lighter and easier to move around I originally looks at the NC Honda 750X It seem like something I might enjoy but just couldn't Get over the fact that it only put out 54hp and had some serious cost cutting in many areas Well now I own a 2020 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT. Quite a machine and loaded with options like ABS, cruise control .traction control ,3 riding modes heated grips and even a quick shifter, Nice removable bags, although they wont hold a full face helmet like the ST.It is a full 200lbs less than ST about the same HP and Torque. The triple is a beast with great low in torque. The cruise is a true blessing. Needless to say I really like it Hated to loose the ST1300. But couldn't pass up the deal. I liken it of going from a Cadillac to a Camaro SS. Still look forward to staying on the STOC sight and conversing. Got to say their sight does not even compare !

MIKE
 

Shawn K

Professional Cat Confuser
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Oct 11, 2008
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982
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Boiling Springs, SC
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GL1800
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9012
As much as I hate to say it (having been a Honda man all my life), there are a lot of (i.e. most) market segments where I think Honda has really dropped the ball.

For example:

Supersports: The CBR600RR hasn't been updated since Noah got off the ark. Yes, there's an argument about the validity of the Supersport class, but still...

Touring: The new (2018+) Gold Wing is a nice bike, but I think it really missed the mark as a flagship tourer. Smaller tank, WAY smaller luggage (I mean, it's not even close), less luxurious seating accommodations... it's no longer a touring bike designed for the way that the Gold Wing used to be designed to tour. It's for that reason that I bought a leftover dealer stock 2016 GL1800. I've personally met owners of the 2018+ who have complained about the less comfortable seating and lack of storage, and who have actually traded in their bikes to go back a generation.

Superbike: The new CBR1000RR-RRR-R is nice, but to get the full-on maximum performance, you have to pay an incredibly stupid amount of money. To have a bike at the same price level as its competition, you have to buy the "old" CBR (still available), which is a significant step down in performance compared to the competition.

Adventure: The Africa Twin is either underpowered and under-spec'd compared to the mega ADV's, or under-spec'd and overpriced compared to the middleweights. No electronic cruise, no shaft drive offerings, heavily biased toward off-road... where's the Honda for people who like the GS or Super Tenere style of ADV/long-distance tourer?

Middleweight standards: Honda's 500cc parallel twin is well engineered and reliable, but as dull as ditch water. Nothing Honda puts it in is anything that lights anyone's fire. The CBR650 is nice, but way overpriced compared to Yamaha and Kawasaki offerings in the same segment.

Sportbikes: The only offering is the VFR800, which is expensive, underpowered, poorly marketed, and little more than a refresh of the design that's been around ever since the VTEC version was first released.

I could go on, but my basic point is that Honda used to be the performance and excitement leader. Bikes like the original CB750, CBX, Interceptor, Gold Wing, CBR600's (originally)... these all used to be forward-thinking leaders in their segments. Honda used to create bikes that set the tone that the other manufacturers followed. Nowadays, "Honda" has become practically synonymous with "boring" and "several years late to the party". In the grand scheme of things, it feels like Honda is more interested in selling hundreds of thousands of stamped-out small bikes to southeast Asia, and only gives enough passing thought to larger bikes in Western markets to not completely concede those markets to the competition. The last bike Honda made that excited me - honestly - was the ST1300 (which is why I own one). I recently bought a GL1800, but not because it *excited* me, as much as I bought it for it's reputation for durability, being well-sorted, highly competent as a tourer, and because I wanted something that my wife would enjoy with me. My ST1300 was an emotional purchase, my GL1800 was a rational one. Honda just doesn't make lustworthy bikes anymore.

(BTW, I realize that I got derailed. Congrats on the new bike! The Tracer 900GT is a nice ride,one that I considered myself!)
 
Last edited:

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace
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Congratulations Silver Bullet!.

Just a few years ago I thought I'd be on an ST1300 forever but things change and change is good. Enjoy the new ride!
 
Joined
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Congratulations on the Tracer Mike.
Your thoughts are valid but I think can be directed at more than Honda.
I would love to downsize to maybe, 50 kilos less, even less power although yes 54 doesn't sound good.
Maybe the work Honda is doing on the NC and its update to 800/850 cc for 2021 (?) may be the answer, especially if they can fit it into a frame big enough for two adults and luggage. I expect though it'll be a Baby Africa Twin with no more space.
I did try the BMW 800 GT but its the same problem, just not spacey enough.
Enjoy it.
Upt'North.
 
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I'm finding some older Hondas work well..... but you didn't get the CBF1000 there, so sad. FJR great alternative, but if you want lighter........ Tracer was on my list.....
If you want larger capacity bags, either retrofit (rivet on) with FJR saddlebag lids or complete FJR saddlebags (30 litres vs. Tracer's 22L). Find some scratched up ones and paint to suit, be patient for them to come along.
 
Joined
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I'm finding some older Hondas work well..... but you didn't get the CBF1000 there, so sad. FJR great alternative, but if you want lighter........ Tracer was on my list.....
If you want larger capacity bags, either retrofit (rivet on) with FJR saddlebag lids or complete FJR saddlebags (30 litres vs. Tracer's 22L). Find some scratched up ones and paint to suit, be patient for them to come along.
Good call on the CBF1000, just enough, fabulous bike but long discontinued. I loved mine an 08 MK I.
Upt'North.
 
Joined
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Congratulations on your Tracer. I was discussing the merits of these with a Gendarme in France last year as the French Police use them nowadays. He was really impressed with his and nothing derogatory to say about it.
 

ESB

STRIDER
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
277
Location
Oklahoma
Bike
'07 ST 1300
Nice move -
Tracer a Great Bike. Enjoy
Agree about the Honda summary.
My '07 ST1300 is a great bike.
But ---
Honda NEVER touched the ST1300 & produced any upgrades or features !

Took similar route, but different bike.
Got a '16 FJR1300 & It does it all VERY well.
Honda bails on the Sport Tourers.
 

wjbertrand

Ventura Highway
Joined
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Messages
4,420
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Ventura, CA
That Tracer GT has also caught my eye. I'd probably still have my ST1300 if it hadn't developed the unsolvable misfire. I bought the Super Tenere fully expecting it to be a complementary bike to the ST13, not as a replacement originally. I worked on the ST problem on and off for 2 years convinced I could fix her but eventually I was just over it. Now that I'd bought the Yamaha I didn't really have the budget to buy another ST or FJR so the Super Tenere indeed ended up as the replacement. It does a much better job of long distance riding than I expected. The more open and roomy ergos are nice too. Not as much weather protection as an ST, but so far that and the smaller fuel tank are the only places the ST really beats it for long distance touring.

I didn't want to leave the Honda family but the company left me no choice in discontinuing the ST and offering no comparable replacement. I looked hard at and tested the FJR, nice bike for sure. I can't explain it but it just doesn't push my checkbook response button for some reason. Honda didn't introduce the AT until after I'd already bought the Super T, but comparing the bikes, I would probably have gone for the Super anyway. I heard a rumor that the FJR and Concours are also being discontinued, I think the Kawasaki already has been? If Honda were to introduce a new V4 ST with modern features I would probably buy it immediately.

The new Gold Wing has also caught my eye but I don't see why Honda didn't just take it out to a full 2L in displacement or why they cut so far back on luggage capacity. I see now that Corbin sells color matched deeper lids for the side and top boxes that could solve that problem, assuming they don't look goofy or something. Solving the fuel capacity issue would not seem to be so easy, though at my age my bladder has lost some range too.

I'm keeping my eyes open for a nice '08 or '09 candy red ST13 with ABS if one should become available at the right price in the right place.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
765
Location
Cambridge, ON
Bike
2020 Tracer 900GT
STOC #
6075
After owning Hondas since 1974 I ended my loyalty. Now retired and looking for something lighter and easier to move around I originally looks at the NC Honda 750X It seem like something I might enjoy but just couldn't Get over the fact that it only put out 54hp and had some serious cost cutting in many areas Well now I own a 2020 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT. Quite a machine and loaded with options like ABS, cruise control .traction control ,3 riding modes heated grips and even a quick shifter, Nice removable bags, although they wont hold a full face helmet like the ST.It is a full 200lbs less than ST about the same HP and Torque. The triple is a beast with great low in torque. The cruise is a true blessing. Needless to say I really like it Hated to loose the ST1300. But couldn't pass up the deal. I liken it of going from a Cadillac to a Camaro SS. Still look forward to staying on the STOC sight and conversing. Got to say their sight does not even compare !

MIKE
Congratulations Mike on your new ride. What colour option did you get?
 

sirepair

Let's RIDE!
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7105
Mike,
Congrats on the new ride! I have a '15 FJ-09 (along with my ST1100) and really enjoy the lighter weight, snappy response and great handling of the "Fudge". Would love to have the electronic cruise (working on an alternative) but it's not a deal breaker for me. I've upgraded the rear shock, and had the ECU flashed (top speed Nanny gone!) which has smoothed out the "snatchy-ness" of the throttle. I hope they improved the stock seat, cause mine seems to have come from the Spanish Inquisition! Terry Adcox took care of that!

Enjoy it!!
 
OP
OP
Silver Bullet

Silver Bullet

Retired
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
629
Location
New London ,Ohio
Bike
2020 Tracer 900 GT
Mike,
Congrats on the new ride! I have a '15 FJ-09 (along with my ST1100) and really enjoy the lighter weight, snappy response and great handling of the "Fudge". Would love to have the electronic cruise (working on an alternative) but it's not a deal breaker for me. I've upgraded the rear shock, and had the ECU flashed (top speed Nanny gone!) which has smoothed out the "snatchy-ness" of the throttle. I hope they improved the stock seat, cause mine seems to have come from the Spanish Inquisition! Terry Adcox took care of that!

Enjoy it!!
Thanks and the seat has been improved on this newest model. I wouldn't say its a lounge chair but a heck of a lot better than the stock ST seat which I changed almost immediately ! I too didn't think the cruise was a big deal but it proved me wrong .Like this bike the more I tweak it and love the new instrument display similar to the R1 I guess .

MIKE
 
OP
OP
Silver Bullet

Silver Bullet

Retired
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
629
Location
New London ,Ohio
Bike
2020 Tracer 900 GT
As much as I hate to say it (having been a Honda man all my life), there are a lot of (i.e. most) market segments where I think Honda has really dropped the ball.

For example:

Supersports: The CBR600RR hasn't been updated since Noah got off the ark. Yes, there's an argument about the validity of the Supersport class, but still...

Touring: The new (2018+) Gold Wing is a nice bike, but I think it really missed the mark as a flagship tourer. Smaller tank, WAY smaller luggage (I mean, it's not even close), less luxurious seating accommodations... it's no longer a touring bike designed for the way that the Gold Wing used to be designed to tour. It's for that reason that I bought a leftover dealer stock 2016 GL1800. I've personally met owners of the 2018+ who have complained about the less comfortable seating and lack of storage, and who have actually traded in their bikes to go back a generation.

Superbike: The new CBR1000RR-RRR-R is nice, but to get the full-on maximum performance, you have to pay an incredibly stupid amount of money. TO have a bike at the same price level as its competition, you have to buy the "old" CBR (still available), which is a significant step down in performance compared to the competition.

Adventure: The Africa Twin is either underpowered and under-spec'd compared to the mega ADV's, or under-spec'd and overpriced compared to the middleweights. No electronic cruise, no shaft drive offerings, heavily biased toward off-road... where's the Honda for people who like the GS or Super Tenere style of ADV/long-distance tourer?

Middleweight standards: Honda's 500cc parallel twin is well engineered and reliable, but as dull as ditch water. Nothing Honda puts it in is anything that lights anyone's fire. The CBR650 is nice, but way overpriced compared to Yamaha and Kawasaki offerings in the same segment.

Sportbikes: The only offering is the VFR800, which is expensive, underpowered, poorly marketed, and little more than a refresh of the design that's been around ever since the VTEC version was first released.

I could go on, but my basic point is that Honda used to be the performance and excitement leader. Bikes like the original CB750, CBX, Interceptor, Gold Wing, CBR600's (originally)... these all used to be forward-thinking leaders in their segments. Honda used to create bikes that set the tone that the other manufacturers followed. Nowadays, "Honda" has become practically synonymous with "boring" and "several years late to the party". In the grand scheme of things, it feels like Honda is more interested in selling hundreds of thousands of stamped-out small bikes to southeast Asia, and only gives enough passing thought to larger bikes in Western markets to not completely concede those markets to the competition. The last bike Honda made that excited me - honestly - was the ST1300 (which is why I own one). I recently bought a GL1800, but not because it *excited* me, as much as I bought it for it's reputation for durability, being well-sorted, highly competent as a tourer, and because I wanted something that my wife would enjoy with me. My ST1300 was an emotional purchase, my GL1800 was a rational one. Honda just doesn't make lustworthy bikes anymore.

(BTW, I realize that I got derailed. Congrats on the new bike! The Tracer 900GT is a nice ride,one that I considered myself!)
HI and could not agree with you more ,why they keep pushing bikes like the African twin and so so many versions mind boggling and not one with cast wheels and tubeless tires that I wanted on with what ever I bought !
MIKE
 

Ron

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Orlando
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Glad you're happy with it!!

I looked at one and noticed how tiny the saddle bags were. The only way I could see it working for me was with different bags and top case. I thought the gas tank was kinda small also. They wanted $16K out the door.
 
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