Spring, Set, Match

[dduelin]

Congratulations. If the spring rate changed but the shock internals remain the same then the rebound setting could change some degree to the + Hard side from the previous setting. How much change if any determined by how the shock actually rebounds after compression. You can set a starting point for rebound setting with the bike in the garage and held vertically by a wheel chock or a helper holding the bike up while you compress and release it.

 

[Raia]

In, cleaned, and new rubber.

Hi Will , Tony from NJ looking at your pictures I see your running on the dark side, what tire is that and how does it feel going around turns at a higher speed ?

 

[Obo]

Hi Will , Tony from NJ looking at your pictures I see your running on the dark side, what tire is that and how does it feel going around turns at a higher speed ?

I know, I know! (at least what tire)

BFGoodrich - g-Force COMP-2 A/S PLUS in a 205/50ZR17 size

I just ordered one from Costco and am awaiting delivery.

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

Hi Will , Tony from NJ looking at your pictures I see your running on the dark side, what tire is that and how does it feel going around turns at a higher speed ?

Hey Tony, OBO is right on,

I know, I know! (at least what tire)

BFGoodrich - g-Force COMP-2 A/S PLUS in a 205/50ZR17 size

I just ordered on from Costco and am awaiting delivery.

and I don't know it's there above 20mph or so. This is only my second set, there are a few riders that are on their many. I would read a few more threads about the handling characteristics, but it seems to be a wear issue and price rather than handling. I got close to 14k out of the last one and did not need to change my riding style. This set I used the smaller front and I'm liking it more. From @970mike ;

I went ahead and got a Bridgestone BT46 in the 120/80/18 and mounted it on my spare rim and like the fit way better then a BT46 130/70/18.

Vredestein Hypertrac All Season Tire | Darksiders

I did a lot of investigating the lastest brands of Dark side tires looking for the thinnest and roundest tire that would work on an ST1300 that would not rub the swingarm. I think that this tire maybe a winner, it is very round on the sides not flat like most dark side tires. I have about 1/2"...

www.st-owners.com

On a separate note, I pointed you here, maybe this helps with your 03,

Code 26 | ST1300 Related

I am a member of the Foro Pan European (Spanish) A member recently posted a write up on a 'fix' for Code 26. I reproduce it below translated from Spanish to English. It may be of interest and assistance to some: "Hello everyone I recently had a failure on my PAN ST1300, (F1 FAIL) when...

www.st-owners.com

 

[Obo]

Hey Tony, OBO is right on,

and I don't know it's there above 20mph or so. This is only my second set, there are a few riders that are on their many. I would read a few more threads about the handling characteristics, but it seems to be a wear issue and price rather than handling. I got close to 14k out of the last one and did not need to change my riding style. This set I used the smaller front and I'm liking it more.

As for the BFG, I based my thoughts on experiences from @spiderman302 and @970mike who ran them too. Mike has switched to the Vred (@Sadlsor runs a Vred too) from the BFG and says he likes it even better.

The Vred also as a longer tread wear and better wet stopping traction according to their ratings vs the BFG.

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

better wet stopping traction

Always a fan favorite.

 

[Obo]

Always a fan favorite.

But let's be honest, how much better is the AA rating vs just an A rating? Not that much anymore...... It's more about marketing "my tire is better than yours." and what we as consumers THINK it means.

(below taken from https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-are-the-uniform-tire-quality-grade-utqg-standards )

Traction Grades

The Traction grade, or traction rating, as they are commonly called, is based on the coefficient of friction of a locked (skidding) tire in a straight line on a wet surface. It doesn't evaluate any dry performance, cornering of any sort, or hydroplaning resistance.

The test tires are simply pulled on a "skid trailer" at 40mph over wet asphalt and concrete test surfaces. The brakes are momentarily locked, and sensors measure the coefficient of friction as the tire skids.

A tire that is on the verge of lockup but still rotating will generate a different coefficient of friction than the same tire if it is skidding. Since the vast majority of vehicles on the road today have anti-lock brakes, tire manufacturers design their products to work more effectively with these systems, as opposed to at full lockup. Because of this, the Traction rating isn't as real-world applicable today as it was when the test was designed. Even so, the traction coefficients and their corresponding grades are in the chart below:

Traction Grades	Asphalt g-Force	Concrete g-Force
AA	Above 0.54	0.38
A	Above 0.47	0.35
B	Above 0.38	0.26
C	Less Than 0.38	0.26

 

[MidLife]

@Willsmotorcycle did you spec that spring rate based on two-up riding?

Same spring on mine, 1300 lb/in (vs 900 stock), and couldn't be happier (I think that's what Dave had on his as well).

Preload travel on my shock is close to 1/4", which is good for an additional load of about 300 lb (keeping in mind that these 10 lbs all the way back there in the box will result in a much higher effective load on the spring!).

One nice side of the 1300 pounder is how easy it is to center stand even when loaded like a donkey.

 

[Sadlsor]

But let's be honest, how much better is the AA rating vs just an A rating? Not that much anymore......

As a non-physicist, I'm inclined to agree. If you're tire(-s) are skidding, most riders have already passed the point where they can remain in control and avoid the obstacle that precipitated the maneuver.
Generally speaking, skids don't last long before we either have a fall or impact, or release the brakes to allow the wheels to roll again, and can properly re-apply the brakes.
(For this instance, I am referring to locked brakes, as opposed to a low-traction skid or slip.)

 

[MidLife]

Over the next 60 miles I reached down and clicked it in one turn at a time.

Why not start with a proper sag adjustment for a clean baseline?

The rebound is still set to the stock spring and I'm not sure if I should move it.

Should? Have to!


You'll never know how good it feels to ride on a 1300 pounder until the rebound is dialed-in just right (and learn how to adjust it for different road conditions and driving styles/moods).

Preload setting affects rebound. What you are doing going down the road playing with preload as you go and find a "comfortable" setting, is in fact an indirect rebound adjustment.

Preload is for sag setting. Best is to start with that and then find the best corresponding rebound adjustment.

For a base line, start adjusting the sag and then do what Dave demonstrates in his rebound vid, then fine tune on your favorite road.

And as you load up the bike and crank up the preload to get back to initial sag (use headlight height on a wall as reference once initial sag is set), you'll also have to crank up rebound to match. It's worth the learning curve.

 

[MidLife]

...or release the brakes to allow the wheels to roll again,..

...and possibly high-side you.

 

[Sadlsor]

...and possibly high-side you.

I covered the potential for untold numbers of variables, in a most - and intentional - generic manner.
If the rear tire is in line with the front, no highside is inevitable nor required. Releasing the rear brake in that specific instance won't have to hurt. But you are correct - if the rear has stepped out, the odds are increased that you'll be tossed in front of the bike. You're likely perfectly set up for an unplanned gravitational encounter.
(If you love your bike, let it go... and if it comes back to you, you've probably just highsided.)
When the front tire is locked up, we can pretty well figure a crash is inevitable if the front brake is not released IMMEDIATELY. (On the quick stop evaluation in MSF Basic RiderCourse, the longest front tire skid I recall is 8 feet, and my partner coach and I were amazed the rider was able to remain upright. That one was an outlier.)
And as a reminder -- these instances are "general" rules... and we all know each crash has its own specifics that may alter the outcome, the biggest variable possibly being the experience and skill of the rider. Likewise generally speaking, the more experienced and skilled riders won't be skidding unintentionally to begin with.

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

Why not start with a proper sag adjustment for a clean baseline?





Should? Have to!


You'll never know how good it feels to ride on a 1300 pounder until the rebound is dialed-in just right (and learn how to adjust it for different road conditions and driving styles/moods).

Preload setting affects rebound. What you are doing going down the road playing with preload as you go and find a "comfortable" setting, is in fact an indirect rebound adjustment.

Preload is for sag setting. Best is to start with that and then find the best corresponding rebound adjustment.

For a base line, start adjusting the sag and then do what Dave demonstrates in his rebound vid, then fine tune on your favorite road.

And as you load up the bike and crank up the preload to get back to initial sag (use headlight height on a wall as reference once initial sag is set), you'll also have to crank up rebound to match. It's worth the learning curve.

I know virtually nothing about sag and preload or rebound. I know when Igofar set up my 16 he set the rebound at 1.5 turns, asked my weight, #170, and turned the preload in 6 clicks. When I road it, the bumps were "together"( no rocking horse), the throttle did not cause the bike to rise or fall dramatically and through the curves it stayed firm and planted regardless of surface conditions. This was all on stock Honda springs.

When I took her out yesterday none of the characteristics were right, throttle pitched her, bumps were like pot holes front and back moving separately and reckless in the turns. As I increased the preload these started to settled down, not great, but better. Please describe the process to start closer to where you are talking about. I don't like guessing with things like this. Thank you for pointing this out.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I got close to 14k out of the last one and did not need to change my riding style.

Isn't that on the low side?
I thought that I had seen dark-side reports in the 25,000 and up range.

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

Isn't that on the low side?
I thought that I had seen dark-side reports in the 25,000 and up range.

I was surprised myself, ran it down to the wear bar, all miles were at 1100 lbs of bike, maybe that was a factor. I started at 30psi rear and let it settle around 26 for most of the miles. The front had some life left, but had succumbed to rocks wedged between the tire and fender resulting in premature wearing. This next one I'm going to set at 30 rear and go up instead of down, front is and was 42 (and I'll loose a little weight).

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Well, it is still probably three times or more than what you were getting with motorcycle tires at probably around half the price, so there can't be any argument on the cost saving side.

 

[MidLife]

Please describe the process to start closer to where you are talking about.

Most likely there is a guide somewhere on the site. Am camping for the next two weeks and won't be able to help much before returning.

 

[MidLife]

Breakfast on the road with a bit of WiFi. So a few quick thoughts.

When I took her out yesterday none of the characteristics were right,

Disappointing for an "upgrade". Mine was taken care of by a tuner and was a dream straight out of the shop. It was a different bike, like a flying carpet and so much less dive from the RaceTech front. Couldn't believe it.

I know virtually nothing about sag and preload or rebound. I know when Igofar set up my 16 he set the rebound at 1.5 turns, asked my weight, #170, and turned the preload in 6 clicks. When I road it, the bumps were "together"( no rocking horse), the throttle did not cause the bike to rise or fall dramatically and through the curves it stayed firm and planted regardless of surface conditions. This was all on stock Honda springs.

Now...I went back to the top of your thread....it looks like you installed the beefier spring on a stock shock? Without RaceTech rebuilding/revalving the shock for you? That may be an issue as the stock valving may not be a good match for the 1300 lb spring. Maybe somebody else went this route and might be able to help here with settings.

If Larry set you up with 6 clicks on the 900 lb spring, you should most likely start with less than that with the 1300 lb.

But there are other factors....

Is the RaceTech Spring the same length as the OEM?

Is the installed length on the shock (compressed length of the spring) same as OEM?

This will affect your starting preload and how much you should click in.

There is always the Poor Man's approach.

Main thing you want from the suspension is not bottoming out.

So you can start with no preload at all. Then crank in the rebound to match, based on driving tests. First crank it in just enough so the rear doesn't po-go stick anymore. Then keep going until you can feel it is starting to pack over bumps, and back it off a bit from there (take good notes of settings).

Ride it like that for a while, to see if you ever bottom out. If you do, start preloading more, step by step. Everytime you crank the preload, you'll have to tighten rebound a bit, again, until it packs, then back off a bit. Keep going with more preload/rebound until you don't bottom down anymore.

But you may find out that for best results, it may be best to have RaceTech rebuild/revalve the shock (if not done yet).

 

[EA6BMECH]

Hi Will , Tony from NJ looking at your pictures I see your running on the dark side, what tire is that and how does it feel going around turns at a higher speed ?

What size did you get? Good Year? Is it a run flat?

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

What size did you get? Good Year? Is it a run flat?

Here is most of what you are asking, no, not a run flat.

Spring, Set, Match | ST1300-Suspension

Congratulations. If the spring rate changed but the shock internals remain the same then the rebound setting could change some degree to the + Hard side from the previous setting. How much change if any determined by how the shock actually rebounds after compression. You can set a starting point...

www.st-owners.com