ST heat - a mystery partially solved

vintagemxr

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Now that I have your attention...

How hot does it get inside the fairing storage compartments of the ST1300? How hot does your ST get while merely sitting in the sun? Why does the gas tank burn your thighs? These are some of the great questions of the age. Men have pondered it, talked about it, argued about, even as they found valuable electronics be ruined in the storage compartments.

Having access to some heat measurement goodies like thermocouples and a FLIR P40 thermocamera I decided to come up with at least a few answers so we can move on to other, more important topics like "Do sheepskin seat seat covers really work?"

So below are some images of my trusty 2005 ST1300 and a bit of temperature observation data. The wierd looking pictures were made with the FLIR P40 ($40,000 if you want your own). The measurements are not completely conclusive since there are a variety of factors involved in measuring the heat of surfaces (emissivity of each different material, reflected heat, blah, blah, blah) but are close enough for our humble purposes here on ST-Owners.com.

Note: I did all this "quick and dirty" by any normal test standards. The equipment was borrowed from work and frankly, no one was paying me so I wasn't going to get too carried away.

The test plan was this:

Add two Type K thermocouples to the right fairing compartment of my ST. One would measure air temp in the compartment and one would be affixed to the floor of the compartment.

The bike would sit in the sun all day facing north. This is the least damaging position for the bike. Facing south or west would be the normal test position but it's my bike and dash banding really happens. Normally the bike would be covered too but I made the big sacrifice for you guys. :)

At the end of the day I went out and connected the temp. measurement unit (Fluke 52 K/J digital thermometer for the geeks) to the T/C's and read the temps.

Test conditions:

Ambient = 106?F
RH = 25% (humid for AZ)

In the compartment:

Air temp = 116?F
Floor temp = 120?F

Not too surprising. Cars can get to 175? air temp inside under the right conditions.

So I attach the Fluke with highly scientific black tape to the storage compartment cover and start the bike.

…I head for the gate…guess what…the temperature drops slightly. Must be some airflow in and around the compartment. Interesting.

The road home is mostly country 2 lane. Speeds vary from 45 to 50 posted. As this was all for science I rode a bit faster, about 60 - 65 mph. Only three stop signs and one stop light for the 17 miles home.

Cruising at 60 - 65 the temps in the storage box start to climb slightly and max out at about 125?F on the floor. Air temp is slightly less.

Here's where it gets more interesting….

As I get into town and drop to 45 mph the bike is now properly warmed up and with the lower speeds the compartment temps start to climb. After two stops signs we're at 130? inside the compartment. Roll through my little neighborhood at 25 mph and we're at 140?. I park the bike in the driveway and let it idle. The radiator cooling fan kicks on and off and the temp inside the box starts to climb. After about 3 minutes the floor temp in the box is about 73.3?C…oops…163.9?F. Is your cell phone dead yet? Your PDA gasping it's last? Maybe. I was certainly hot standing there in the sun and having done enough for science and ST owners everywhere that day, I shut off the bike. The temp inside the box climbed to 162? and then after a couple of minutes begin to slide back as the engine cooled.

I rolled the bike in the garage and the Mrs. came out so see what I was up to. Happily, she brought some cold water with her. My next immediate project was to clean tape glue gook off the fairing. The heat had made a mess of the tape hold the instrumentation in place. Yuk.



So how hot COULD it get in the storage compartments? Can't say for sure and I'm not devoted enough to do a whole test regimen on the bike but I'd guess that stuck in traffic on a hot day the temp might climb to 180?, maybe a little more.

No doubt Honda has done all this themselves but they will never tell us the facts. Given that the inside of a parked car can reach 175?F air temp and surface temps on dashboards can reach 240? I suppose the temp inside the fairing storage compartments isn't all that out of line. But I still wouldn't put anything in there that was electronic. That sort of continuous heating can't be real good for consumer electronic components, at least not ones that I own.

Attached are more thermocamera images of the ST. Keep in mind that these are not photographs, these are measurements of heat coming off the bike (and surroundings). The FLIR measures 75,000 data points at once and then translates that into pretty pictures for our eyes. Color equals temperature. Think thermally, not photographically. Note also the temperature scale on the side of the image. Dark colors mean a cooler temp but it's cool relative to the scale, not your refrigerator. In these images, cool = about 110?. Also, really shiny metal stuff like mufflers, control levers, etc. reflect the heat around them so the camera is seeing mostly the reflection, not the temp of the part. It gets complicated sometimes so that's why the temps you see in these images should not by any means be considered exact but they do match pretty well with more rigorous measurements I've done on lesser vehicles like cars. The camera accuracy is +-2% >30?C so there's that to consider too.

Anyway, my next plan is to do some shots of the ST cold and then warming up and then maybe rolling down the road. We can see once and for all how much heat is coming off the bike and baking the rider or not baking him if he's a tough guy. ;-)

Some additional images attached for your interest and edification.

Enjoy.
 

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vintagemxr

vintagemxr

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STnAV8R said:
It will be interesting to see the temps down in the shin and seat area while in motion and after the bike is heated up. Can you do it in motion from a vehicle driving along side the ST?

That's my general idea. Find someone who wants to ride up and down a deserted road in miserable heat while I drive along side and make a few images. I've not done IR like that before so it would be an interesting little project.

:biker:
 

Mellow

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Now that's cool... er... ah... well, you know what I mean.
 
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Verrry Interesting. (Artie Johnson imitation here). So, let me get this straight--when it's hot outside--the bike gets hot. When it's running it gets hot. When the radiator kicks in it gets really hot. Who would have guessed. Just kidding. I really like the thermo imaging. Very cool. Can I borrow your camera--would like to take a few pic's of a close friend ---------------.
 
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I have two things to say:
1. This makes a great screen background on my computer.
2. It is reminiscent of the Rolling Stones' "Emotional Rescue" album. Remember that one?
 

nm6r

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egar said:
I have two things to say:
1. This makes a great screen background on my computer.
2. It is reminiscent of the Rolling Stones' "Emotional Rescue" album. Remember that one?



Ray
 
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Good work and great information.
Used to do the same type of testing on drag bikes before and after runs
using a thermal imaging sight from a Dragon anti-tank round.
Not telling where or how I got it. Or that set properly it works alot better
than those X-ray glasses you had as a kid :D

Spencer
 
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WOW, great work! It made me think, I know I read that you should make sure the seat is up tight against the tank, but what about the tank and the surrounding pockets? Why not give a gap there to allow some air flow, it that is possible (air flow). I wonder if that will have much, if any, affect on the heat.
 

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vintagemxr said:
Anyway, my next plan is to do some shots of the ST cold and then warming up and then maybe rolling down the road. We can see once and for all how much heat is coming off the bike and baking the rider or not baking him if he's a tough guy. ;-)

I'm not too far from you (Tucson) and volunteer to be roasted.

Of course, I'm on the stealth (black) one so it may be invisible!
: )
 
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Good stuff! I'd like to see a comparison shot with an 1100. Surprised to see relatively cool colors on the brake rotors. Guess that's good, tho.

I'll volunteer ReSTored to ride beside ya for comparison shots.

STicking with the 1100 til all these issues are resolved,

George - STOC 004
in Kingman, Arizona
 

Imrubicon

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Looks like some foil under the seat could cool my fav family jewls a bit which seems to be the hottest place after a longer ride .
And it does seem warmer after raising the seat just a bit
 
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vintagemxr

vintagemxr

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George said:
Good stuff! I'd like to see a comparison shot with an 1100. Surprised to see relatively cool colors on the brake rotors. Guess that's good, tho.

I'll volunteer ReSTored to ride beside ya for comparison shots.

STicking with the 1100 til all these issues are resolved,

George - STOC 004
in Kingman, Arizona
The brake rotors are essentially polished metal so they reflect heat or even cold around them or even sky temp (which is very low compared to air temp) and give the appearance of being cooler than they really are after sitting in the sun all day. In fact they are probably 100 degrees+ in temperature. Measuring polished metals like rotors or nice shiny ST mufflers would take some slightly different techniques than what are used for plastic and painted surfaces. I personally don't find the heat on an ST1300 to be a problem but I know that some people are more sensitive to heat than others. Personally, I hate being cold and don't understand how our Eastern ST guys survive when the weather plunges below 65 or so. :-D
 
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vintagemxr

vintagemxr

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raven.st1300 said:
I'm not too far from you (Tucson) and volunteer to be roasted.

Of course, I'm on the stealth (black) one so it may be invisible!
: )
Thanks for the offer. When I get a little more motivated I'll post a request for volunteers for some Saturday, maybe in a week or three and we can all learn what Honda isn't admitting to. :-D
 
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Very interesting thread Doug.

I have some insulation that I am planning on wrapping my glove boxes with next time the plastic is off. Hopefully it makes a difference in those compartments.

The actual temps recorded is what I found so interesting.

--Bryan
04ST1300A
STOC# 5197
:04biker:
 

Imrubicon

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Someone in another thread brought up the idea of taping the headers .
Which should more a large bit of the heat further down the exhust system correct ?
The heaty from my ST is pretty warm but bearable .
Also real noticeble easy over 90 degree air temp.
The extended fairing addons made a pretty good differnce where the heat hits as it moved a lot of it to the outside of my boots.
This should be pretty cool when shown while moving
 
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Kudos for your great effort!! Now I wish I had one of those analyzers so I could tell when my wife is hot!!

Bottom line for all whiners, if you can't stand the heat get a bike without fairing.
 
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vintagemxr

vintagemxr

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AZST said:
Very interesting thread Doug.

I have some insulation that I am planning on wrapping my glove boxes with next time the plastic is off. Hopefully it makes a difference in those compartments.

The actual temps recorded is what I found so interesting.

--Bryan
04ST1300A
STOC# 5197
:04biker:
I've never taken the plastic off my bike but if I did I'd be doing a bit of insulating around the storage compartments. Some sort of material with an outer reflective side would be best. You would also want to insulate the bottom side of the lids also because they are thin and the heat on the outside surface (160F I think it was) will quickly make it's way into the interior and warm things up. There's really no way to keep things especially cool without resorting to chunks of ice or something but if the temps can be kept down under 120 or so at least cell phones and stuff would not suffer quite as much and not burn your fingers too badly when you take them out.

As for using the IR camera to measure people, it works pretty well for that and doctors are finding the technology helpful in early diagnosis of breast cancer and some other diseases. The ladies like it because it's entirely non-contact/not invasive. Generally pointing any IR camera at people can be interesting because of course it sees hot/cold relationships on surfaces or even slightly undersurfaces. One of the guys at work walked out of the restroom one day, past my desk, and into the field of view of the camera. I looked at the live image and said "Don, you dribbled." :D
 
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vintagemxr said:
One of the guys at work walked out of the restroom one day, past my desk, and into the field of view of the camera. I looked at the live image and said "Don, you dribbled." :D
Blahahahahaha...wacky engineers !!!!

--Bryan
04ST1300A
STOC# 5197
:04biker:
 
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