ST heat - a mystery partially solved

[Asphalt]

Are these magnitudes of the temperatures measured indicative of other bikes with fairings such as the supersports and other sport touring bikes?

Are there other sport touring bikes with fairing pockets and does anyone have a feel for the internal temperatures that they might see.

I was riding just a couple nights ago (Toronto) with 17-19C (62-66F) and found the items in my fairing pockets (cell, keys, wallet) were warm to the touch but not too hot. However, I was riding in 30C (86F) with the sun beating down and my keys sitting in the right side fairing pocket were so hot I could hardly pick them up (I guess +130F). I don't put my cell phone in the fairing pocket anymore unless I am riding in approx 20C (68F) or lower, otherwise only keys and wallet go into the pocket and my cell goes into my jacket.

So..back to the question. Do other bikes with fairings run at similar temperatures in and around the fairing. What about any other bikes with similar fairing pockets?

In summary, the ST1300 is such a phenomenal bike. What can you do if the fairing pockets get hot in hot riding conditions? Use your side bags?

 

[Brave Salmon]

Excellent work! I wonder how modifying or removing the inner cowls would affect these temps?

 

[sickchilly]

In summary, the ST1300 is such a phenomenal bike. What can you do if the fairing pockets get hot in hot riding conditions? Use your side bags?

It is a phenominal bike and I personally have no issues with the heat so far. My bike came with fairing deflectors and all the trim, insulation, etc. in place. No hacks.

The pocket heat was a little surprising though and I decided to do something about it in case I wanted to stash a cell phone to charge or something.

So while I had the tupperware off last time, I completely wrapped the outsides of the pockets with Duct King self-adhesive foam/foil combination insulation. After a ride home from work (almost an hour in upper 80's heat), I reached for my garage door opener in the right pocket. It was warm, but not even remotely hot. I estimate it cut the heat in the pockets down by at least 70%. I wouldn't feel bad about leaving electronics in there now.
http://sickchilly.com/gallery2/v/autos/motorcycles/st/_DSC3985.jpg.html

 

[Polovision]

I agree with everyone else...this is good stuff. I notice on my last ride that my seat wasn't seating correctly. The right front side was not fastened down and I was getting alot of heat on that side. I fixed it at the next stop and it returned to normal. I noticed the bigger the gap at the front of the seat the hotter my crotch gets. Confirmes my hunch about alot of heat under the seat.

 

[vintagemxr]

Are these magnitudes of the temperatures measured indicative of other bikes with fairings such as the supersports and other sport touring bikes?

Are there other sport touring bikes with fairing pockets and does anyone have a feel for the internal temperatures that they might see.

I was riding just a couple nights ago (Toronto) with 17-19C (62-66F) and found the items in my fairing pockets (cell, keys, wallet) were warm to the touch but not too hot. However, I was riding in 30C (86F) with the sun beating down and my keys sitting in the right side fairing pocket were so hot I could hardly pick them up (I guess +130F). I don't put my cell phone in the fairing pocket anymore unless I am riding in approx 20C (68F) or lower, otherwise only keys and wallet go into the pocket and my cell goes into my jacket.

So..back to the question. Do other bikes with fairings run at similar temperatures in and around the fairing. What about any other bikes with similar fairing pockets?

In summary, the ST1300 is such a phenomenal bike. What can you do if the fairing pockets get hot in hot riding conditions? Use your side bags?

The external surface temps I measured on the ST would be typical for most any modern bike (or car for that matter). Plastic and paint don't vary all that much these days. Some of the bikes done in flat colors on the bodywork or gas tanks (Aprilia "ash black", Honda 599 a couple of years ago, etc, etc.) might get a good bit hotter. It is possible under "just right" conditions to get transient spot temps of over 230F on some surfaces like the corners of leather covered seats when the sun is at just the right angle for a few minutes. Covering a bike is best but even tossing a towel over the seat or instruments cuts heat substantially and reduces long term negative effects on the materials.

As for heat inside storage compartments, I guess that would be a case by case situation and very dependant on design inside the fairing. Regardless of the bike, wrapping the storage compartments like sickchilly did is the way to go to reduce heat in the boxes. The important thing would be to avoid inadvertantly blocking some vent that needs to be open to vent air out of the fairing. I'd surmise too that prolonged, high speed riding...if one were inclined to such naughty things :bannana ...could raise some temps in and around the boxes much higher than I measured if they were unprotected.

 

[Asphalt]

vintagemxr (Old Fahrt)

Very informative post with some very interesting data. I enjoyed reading this thread.

 

[100MPG]

Awesome pictures, I am going to use these to come up with a fix for this heat issue. Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 5682]

REPLY: ST heat - a mystery partially solved

That's my general idea. Find someone who wants to ride up and down a deserted road in miserable heat while I drive along side and make a few images. I've not done IR like that before so it would be an interesting little project.

:biker:

Thanks for these static shots.... as for on-the road temps....

Bike-to-bike IR imaging with a 40k wonder... hmmmm lotsa variables

Suggestions if I may...

It might be enough to set up imaging at a stop point after a few miles of ridingin daytime temps.... Pull into an intersection stop posture -- maybe even pop the bike onto the center stand at operating temps....

Clickety-click-click-click.... Post.... Voila!.... pardon my french!

 

[CruisingDog]

OK here's some ideas that I can think of to add to the experiment:

1) Try putting alumina foil on the underside of the glovebox (on the inside of the motorcycle tupperware). This should hopefully reflect the heat since black plastic is a conductor.

2) Try adding aluminum foil on th einside of the glove compartment.

3) If you have both (1) & (2) I would expect the glove compartment to be a bilt like a Thermos (tm) flask.

4) if (1), (2) or (3) work then find a good thermally insulating plastic and cover it with aluminum foild and then make it into an insert for your glove compartment.

If the result is that the foil keeps the heat in, you could market it as an 'on-the-road' toaster!

 

[Doobage]

Something I noticed in the left-fairing thermal image (and is pointed out) is that the clutch lever is casting a shadow on the fairing pocket. That shadow is considerably cooler than the sunlit exposed area. I'm not disputing that the camera is indicating an inaccurate tempature but the possibility that the surface temp is not the radiant heat from the engine, but mostly due to sunlight on a black surface.

If you are still able to take some photo's, I'd be curious to see what a night time image looks like after riding to see how much is attributed to sunlight and how much is radiant heat from the engine.

It'd also be cool to get a shot with a sheep skin on the seat to see how the heat looks on it.

 

[tdeboeser]

Something I noticed in the left-fairing thermal image (and is pointed out) is that the clutch lever is casting a shadow on the fairing pocket. That shadow is considerably cooler than the sunlit exposed area. I'm not disputing that the camera is indicating an inaccurate tempature but the possibility that the surface temp is not the radiant heat from the engine, but mostly due to sunlight on a black surface.

If you are still able to take some photo's, I'd be curious to see what a night time image looks like after riding to see how much is attributed to sunlight and how much is radiant heat from the engine.

It'd also be cool to get a shot with a sheep skin on the seat to see how the heat looks on it.

Nice observation!!!
:bow1::yes:

Maybe a stand with something on it to cast a shadow, I don't know where you ( vintagemx ) are but the nights here in NoVA are getting too cool ...

 

[vintagemxr]

Something I noticed in the left-fairing thermal image (and is pointed out) is that the clutch lever is casting a shadow on the fairing pocket. That shadow is considerably cooler than the sunlit exposed area. I'm not disputing that the camera is indicating an inaccurate tempature but the possibility that the surface temp is not the radiant heat from the engine, but mostly due to sunlight on a black surface.

If you are still able to take some photo's, I'd be curious to see what a night time image looks like after riding to see how much is attributed to sunlight and how much is radiant heat from the engine.

It'd also be cool to get a shot with a sheep skin on the seat to see how the heat looks on it.

The shots with the IR camera are static shots, the engine wasn't running and had been off all day. All the heating in the image is the result of heating by the sun, directly or indirectly. The camera only sees surface temps so the shadow of the clutch lever would indeed create a "cool" spot on the surface. Remember that you're seeing not a visible shadow but a reduction in heat where the shadow is. If there were any breeze blowing the images would look different yet, with heat gradiants, cooler to warmer, based on the direction of the breeze. Note in to image of the rear of the bike how much different the left and right saddlebag temps are. That's your shadow effect again.

Skywriter, the riding shots wouldn't be a big problem as I'd likely make them with myself and the camera safely seating in a car or truck with someone else driving. Making images after the bike stopped would create noticably different results than with the bike moving down the road. Shots with the bike stopped and idling, as at a stop sign, would be interesting in and of themselves. Making images at night would removed the effects of the sun on all the temps but would then introduce the reverse effect of cooler air cooling the bike, fairing bits, etc. More variables!

The whole question of "How hot does an ST get?" can be looked at in many different ways and each way will introduce new variable including reflected temps from other vehicles, the road, sky temp, clouds, wind, and so on.

I've gotten really busy at work so I have not had a chance to do any follow up stuff with the camera, hopefully in September when things slow up a bit we can make some new measurements. It's fun to do this stuff with the ST simply because the topic of the ST and heat has been so...well...hotly discussed for so long.

 

[Doobage]

Sorry, I misunderstood your image shots in regards to the engine. I thought the image was intended to be a thermal image of it after the engine was hot AND parked in the sun.

And because of the cooler shadow, I thought that was strong evidence to show that the radiant heat from the engine wasn't the cause, but the sun. But you cleared that up.

What this study does confirm for me is that I need to get a bike cover so that my seat will be at least 20 - 40 degrees cooler when I leave work at the end of the day. Which my buns were telling me anyway, but seeing it just seems to make it look all the hotter.

But when you have time, I'd still like to see a night time shot, or garage shot after the engine had been running just to see where the heat is (as caused by the engine and not the sun).

Thanks a bunch!

 

[FJRMGM]

looking at that picture - you wouldn't happen to have some "Predator" in your family tree would you?

 

[RibsST1300]

I'd love to see some in motion shots to see if airflow shows up as a heating affect, and some Just after stopping to see what the temps are on the side of the gas tank by the knees.

 

[Harpo]

I plan to spray the pockets with expanding insulating foam on the hot side (not the cargo side) and then glue aluminum foil around that first chance I get. No seams and generous thickness. I'll post back when I get that done. I may also spray the inside of the covers and dress that up with a knife. As I posted elsewhere, I'm concerned about my sidearm in that pocket.

 

[outback rider]

You suggest that the high heat in the pockets will damage electrical goods. However, that is where Honda fit the radio. Do they know something about electronics we don't?

 

[Blue STreak]

I've had a radar dectector in the locking side pocket since I bought my ST last year. No problems with heat so far.

 

[shantyman]

Can someone convert all of the above into a recipe for fish and rice in a foil pouch in the left hand side pocket? How long and how fast?
thanks...

 

[Capt_Gruuvy]

I looked at the top picture and next thing I know an hour went by and I was deep into a flashback.

Where is my lighter ?