ST1100 driveline question.

[GreenZR]

I have been feeling something odd very reciently from the driveline. I just changed both front and rear tires, but did notice this before the tire change. I think the best way to describe what it feels like, is when you have a chain driven bike. And the chain is worn and stretched with tight spots that drag and you get a surging. With this tire change I also installed new cush drive rubber and new inserts, including the 3 O-Rings with new ones. The splines are in very good shape, and have plenty of fresh moly paste on them. Also drained, flushed, and refilled the final drive. I will be changing the engine oil & filter within two weeks.

My ST1100 is a 2000 & does not have ABS. It has just over 66,000 miles on the clock.

Is it time to pull the swing arm and check the drive shaft?? I welcome any and all thoughts.

Thanks, Gary.

 

[vinny]

Gary, Sounds like you may have some drive line lash happening. Before you did into the drive line, put the bike on the center stand with the tranny in gear and try to rotate the rear wheel to see how much free play you have. A little is normal, say 5 -10 degrees rotation.... this is an accumulation of all the clearances from the splines, driveline, and the tranny gears. If it's much more than that, there could be some issues. It is possible you are experiencing some throttle freeplay. Try adjusting the throttle cables to remove most of the slack in the throttle movement. Hope this helps.

 

[GreenZR]

Mostly noticeable in 5th gear. Not so much before that, and not under power, just when up to a steady speed, approx. 60 - 65 mph. Drop down to 4th. at same speed it almost goes away. Drop down to 3rd. same speed, it goes away.

Bike on center stand, in 1st. movement of valve stem is about 1 1/4" - 1 3/8". Bike out of gear, wheel is free, with little or no resistance.

No excessive play in the throttle cables, idle is normal.

 

[Bigmak96]

Gary, I would be prone to look at the cush rubbers and inserts again to see if there is any signs of wear. Only because that sounds like the only thing that was changed. Maybe one or two got put in upside down and is not letting the spider float.

 

[GreenZR]

I will check every thing again. The rubber cush parts are in all the way, but I'll double check the inserts to make sure they are seated properly in the rubber parts. I noticed this before the new tires and cush drive parts. The thrust washer in the final drive is not the metal one, should I replace it with a new metal one?? I think I will pull the final drive off the swing arm and check those splines also. I have the proper tools to remove and install the swing arm, just one of the last things I want to do.

 

[GreenZR]

The next thing I will check will be the rear wheel bearings.

 

[ST1100Y]

The thrust washer in the final drive is not the metal one, should I replace it with a new metal one??

Unless it shows signs of damage actually no, that nylon/Teflon thing of the post '96 models holds up well.
I would however give the hub centre a closer look; I don't know how badly worn down the previous hub-dampers were... in some cases the spline can start to tumble, starting to wear off the cylindrical stub/hub around the RHS bearing... once the aluminium has been shaved off, the spline will not align 100% parallel between wheel and ring-gear anymore...
The outer edge/surface must be plane and flush with the edge of the bearing race, the cylindrical circumference showing no nicks or scratches and the groove for the thin O-ring be clearly visible and of same deep & shape all around...
Also possible that you'd pushed one of the aluminium inserts inward while placing the spline/fingers in...
And checking the wheel bearings as well as the rear brake & rotor also seems advisable, in order to exclude those as cause for the 'pulsing'...

Unless the mount has been seriously abused in the past (attempting wheelies and such nonsense...) I doubt that a damaged prop-shaft is an issue there.....

 

[dwalby]

Nobody has mentioned U-joint yet, could a worn joint produce the symptoms he's feeling?

 

[GreenZR]

No wheelies for me.

This bike had a little over 44,000 miles when i got it. The rubber dampers that I took out were just slightly loose. The inserts showed some wear, but the fingers of the driven flange were all good. The wheel itself is good shape, no wear where it mates with the driven flange. I will probably go ahead and pull the swing arm and check the U-joint anyway. I have a good one from my 1991, if I need a driveshaft. At this point, I suspect the U-joint may be the issue.

 

[Mark]

U-Joint went out on my 2001 ST1100, smeared the pin bearings all over.

Quite a bit of fun replacing it, NOT!!!

I noticed a subtle vibration I couldn't find as my 1st indication.
The vibration got a lot worse before I figured it out...

 

[Jim Van]

U-Joint went out on my 2001 ST1100, smeared the pin bearings all over.

Quite a bit of fun replacing it, NOT!!!

I noticed a subtle vibration I couldn't find as my 1st indication.
The vibration got a lot worse before I figured it out...

Mark:

At what mileage did that happen ??

BTW, At 56K / after 14 years when I greased my swingarm bearings, the u-joint felt like it was new. The bearing grease was pretty dry and sparse.

 

[GreenZR]

Checked the rear wheel out last night. Bearings seem ok, rubber and inserts for the cush drive are all ok. Pulled the final drive off the swing arm and all looked and felt good there. Put it all back together so I could ride it to work today. It is still doing it, I thought just checking and making sure it was aligned back in place right might have made a difference, not. The U-joint felt good from what I could tell with the final drive off, and moving it around from that end. No odd extra movement off the drive shaft, just back and forth till it stopped against the transmission with it in 1st. I will still plan on pulling the swing arm and check the U-joint anyway.

 

[RickA]

For what it is worth, I just pulled my drive shaft to check the u-joint and it felt smooth with no play so it went back in at 190,000 miles.

Rick

 

[Mark]

At what mileage did that happen ??

125,000

 

[STurgisSTeele]

125,000

Hi Mark,
I'm looking at replacing my u-joint. 130k and vibration has gotten worse since I just started to notice late last season.
What socket size to use to make my own lock nut removal tool, assuming that is what you did? I know I've seen the info in a post before, but I've been looking all morning and can't find that info again. I've read thru Joe's 1300 u-joint thread where I thought I'd seen it before, but no luck.
TIA

Update: found it. 29mm socket. Just skipped over it a couple of times! Went back and reread the thread again, this time slower.

 

[Mark]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Swingarm-nut-tool-CBR-CBX-GL-VTX-CB-ATC-Goldwing-fourtrax-shadow-valkyre-/200976050970?vxp=mtrhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Swingarm-nut-tool-CBR-CBX-GL-VTX-CB-ATC-Goldwing-fourtrax-shadow-valkyre-/200976050970?vxp=mtr

Update: found it. 29mm socket. Just skipped over it a couple of times! Went back and reread the thread again, this time slower.

This thread has a great amount of information on the tool.

This tool would need a bit of math to use because the short extension changes the torque applied.

And an Ebay listing...

And I can't find the link I saved to the guy in San Diego that is selling them for a good price... it was in a recent thread too.

Hope you get yours before it gets as bad as mine was!

Mark

 

[STurgisSTeele]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Swingarm-nut-tool-CBR-CBX-GL-VTX-CB-ATC-Goldwing-fourtrax-shadow-valkyre-/200976050970?vxp=mtrhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Swingarm-nut-tool-CBR-CBX-GL-VTX-CB-ATC-Goldwing-fourtrax-shadow-valkyre-/200976050970?vxp=mtr

This thread has a great amount of information on the tool.

This tool would need a bit of math to use because the short extension changes the torque applied.

And an Ebay listing...

And I can't find the link I saved to the guy in San Diego that is selling them for a good price... it was in a recent thread too.

Hope you get yours before it gets as bad as mine was!

Mark

Thanks, Mark. Went ahead and ordered the tool. That'll make it simpler and maybe be able to loan it out to someone in need.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

Guess I'm a little late chiming in here but I have both ST1100 and ST1300 swingarm pivot bolt lockring special tools to loan for the price of postage. With hex-bit sockets too. FWIW

John

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

There are slight differences between the ST11 and ST13 swingarm tools. Here's the ST1100 version with a schematic with measurements:

HTH

edit: BTW, the swingarm bearings preload (force compressing the tapered roller bearings towards each other) is set by the left pivot bolt and is only 13 ft lbs on ST1100. The lockring insures that the preload stays fixed at that value. You don't want to increase the preload while you tighten the lockring, hence the special lockring tool with the hole in it to hold the pivot bolt through it while the lockring is torqued. The lockring's torque value spec'd in the service manual is for when the special tool with the 47mm offset is used. Use the special tool, or an accurate copy. Correct suspension setting is important for safety and drivability, and you're not going to adjust the swingarm bearings' preload many times in the life of your ST.

edit2: BTW2, I've checked with a number of physics professors and they tell me the correct/accurate way to set the lockring torque is to have the torque wrench at 90? to the special tool's 'tang' at the moment the spec'd value is achieved.


Mike Turley photo

John

 

[STurgisSTeele]

Thanks, John. Great info.