ST1100 Oil Level Mystery

[GeoffJ]

I bought a '96 ST1100 last month. Since I didn't know the bike's history, I decided to change the final drive and engine oil. After draining the engine oil and installing a new filter, I filled the crankcase with 3.8 quarts of 10W-40 dino. Next I started the motor and let it idle for about 5 minutes. I stopped the motor, waited about 10 minutes and re-checked the oil level. It was at the upper level mark on the sight glass.

The next day I commuted to work on the bike, about 26 miles round trip. When I returned home I noticed the oil level was at the top of the sight glass. I drained about 15-20 ounces to bring the oil to the correct level. Any idea what happened?

 

[mcthorogood]

Are you checking the engine oil when the motorcycle is parked in the same exact spot and on the centerstand?

 

[GeoffJ]

Are you checking the engine oil when the motorcycle is parked in the same exact spot and on the centerstand?

Yes. I checked the oil in the same (level) spot in my garage where I changed it. The bike was on the centerstand in both instances.

 

[dwalby]

I never trust an oil reading if the oil didn't get up to normal operating temperature. I'm not sure if the lower temperature has any effect on its ability to drain efficiently back down into the crankcase, so I never take that chance. I usually fill it to the lower part of the sight glass from the jug, then ride to work and back and check it again, then top it off.

But that being said, it seems very strange that you'd be off by a half quart or more. I typically use the 5 quart Mobil 1 container, so I'm never sure exactly how much I poured in. I want to guess that 3.8 does sound a little high, but not half a quart high. How did you determine the 3.8 quart fill volume? If your math is correct it would suggest you replaced about 3.2-3.3 quarts, which sounds less than I would expect.

 

[GeoffJ]

I followed the owner's manual, which says to use 3.9 quarts with oil filter change.

 

[SMSW]

I followed the owner's manual, which says to use 3.9 quarts with oil filter change.

Did you use a Honda oil filter? I've seen a couple of different sized filters that are 'equivalents' for the 1300. But neither of those would get you half a quart off. Not sure if there are multiple filters for the 1100.

I believe there is a story in 1001 Arabian Nights in which a pitcher of milk is poured, and the pitcher refills itself immediately. Perhaps you have found the crankcase oil equivalent?

 

[Bush]

I have experienced this discrepancy as well in the past. Dwalby's method is the best way to go when refilling. It should be noted, if you haven't already heard, that the optimum oil level in the sight glass is the half way point, between the marks on the sight glass frame. Up to the top line, or over, has been blamed for engine vibration on many occasions here, so, initially filling to the lower line, then going for a ride, will get a truer picture of the level.

 

[GeoffJ]

Did you use a Honda oil filter? I've seen a couple of different sized filters that are 'equivalents' for the 1300. But neither of those would get you half a quart off. Not sure if there are multiple filters for the 1100.

I used a Honda oil filter.

I do my own wrenching, and I've never experienced this with my BMW or Harley. I'll definitely use Dwalby 's method in the future.

 

[dwalby]

I followed the owner's manual, which says to use 3.9 quarts with oil filter change.

I think you misunderstood what I was asking, so to phrase it better, "how did you verify you actually put 3.8 quarts into the motor, and not more?"

 

[GeoffJ]

I think you misunderstood what I was asking, so to phrase it better, "how did you verify you actually put 3.8 quarts into the motor, and not more?"

I used the graduated marks on the gallon container of oil.

 

[dwalby]

Was the oil at normal operating temperature before draining the old oil? It sounds like the logical explanation is you didn't get all of the old oil out.

Even if you poured the entire gallon container in, then drained off 0.5-0.6 quarts, you'd be at 3.4-3.5 quarts, which is a little low. If you put in 3.8 like you say, then you're at a net of 3.2 or 3.3 or so, which is definitely too little for the sight glass reading you're getting.

 

[ReSTored]

When I change oil and filter I put in 3.4l or 3.6 US quarts and this brings oil level to the half way point on the site glass. Oil drained hot and filter loosened and removed hot, so I think I'm getting maximum drain.

 

[SMSW]

I'm not sure how accurate the marks on the new container of oil are. Just for giggles, you might fill the empty oil jug with water and then pour it out into a measuring cup (don't let your wife know you are using her glassware) as a check. Don't forget to wash the measuring cup thoroughly.

 

[Bush]

When I change oil and filter I put in 3.4l or 3.6 US quarts and this brings oil level to the half way point on the site glass. Oil drained hot and filter loosened and removed hot, so I think I'm getting maximum drain.

If you want to be really anal about getting more out, there are a few ounces that sit in the valleys of the heads and that can be drained somewhat by leaning the bike to each side, while on the centre stand. My bike sits on carpet, so no fear of the stand sliding out on a cement floor and I can get about a 45 degree angle lean each way.

EDIT: OK maybe 60 degrees, now that I think about it.

 

[SMSW]

If you want to be really anal about getting more out, there are a few ounces that sit in the valleys of the heads and that can be drained somewhat by leaning the bike to each side, while on the centre stand. My bike sits on carpet, so no fear of the stand sliding out on a cement floor and I can get about a 45 degree angle lean each way.

EDIT: OK maybe 60 degrees, now that I think about it.

There is no mention of this in the SM, so I doubt it is necessary. Thousands of oil changes without tipping the bike have not resulted in a shortened engine life (well, maybe if we all tipped the bike we would get 500,000 miles out of the engine instead of only 400,000).

 

[Bush]

There is no mention of this in the SM, so I doubt it is necessary. Thousands of oil changes without tipping the bike have not resulted in a shortened engine life (well, maybe if we all tipped the bike we would get 500,000 miles out of the engine instead of only 400,000).

Of course it isn't necessary! Wouldn't be considered a safe practice by Honda either, but since I only change the oil once a year generally, before winter, I like to get as much old oil out as I can. A disassembled engine takes 4.54 quarts, whereas just an oil filter change takes 3.91 quarts, so there is over half a quart sitting around in nooks and crannies inside the engine.

 

[jfheath]

I bought a '96 ST1100 last month. Since I didn't know the bike's history, I decided to change the final drive and engine oil. After draining the engine oil and installing a new filter, I filled the crankcase with 3.8 quarts of 10W-40 dino. Next I started the motor and let it idle for about 5 minutes. I stopped the motor, waited about 10 minutes and re-checked the oil level. It was at the upper level mark on the sight glass.

The next day I commuted to work on the bike, about 26 miles round trip. When I returned home I noticed the oil level was at the top of the sight glass. I drained about 15-20 ounces to bring the oil to the correct level. Any idea what happened?

I had this with both of my ST1100s, and to a lesser extent the 1300s. The oil seems to disappear and then come back - depending upon how the bike is sitting and what the bike was doing when the engine is running. I assumed, but don't know, that oil was getting trapped on the left hand side of the casing (perhaps the oil filter), when the bike was put onto the side stand. I'm not totally convinced by my explanation, but I got caught out a few times, thinking the oil had run low, topped it up only to find that next time I looked the sight glass was full. I only ever got a reliable reading in the sight glass after going for a run, and not turning the engine off until I had the bike on the centre stand - keeping the bike upright as I dismounted.

I am quite tall, so I can pop the side stand down - just as a precaution - and get off the bike to put it onto the centre stand keeping it upright all of the time. Then allow time for the oil to drain downwards before looking at the sight glass.

When doing a complete oil change, it is hard to know exactly how much old oil is left in various pockets. So I fill up to the top line, and run the engine for a bit to get the oil warm. Then top up. After the first run, I'll do the vertical dismount described above, and check the level again when the engine has cooled down. It usually needs a little more.

 

[Roger]

I park in the same place, sometimes forward, sometimes reversed. The oil level is always higher one way over the other. The ground is flat - I laid a spirit level on the ground. Don't worry so long as you can see oil on the sight glass - the bike will be fine....

 

[GeoffJ]

Of course it isn't necessary! Wouldn't be considered a safe practice by Honda either, but since I only change the oil once a year generally, before winter, I like to get as much old oil out as I can. A disassembled engine takes 4.54 quarts, whereas just an oil filter change takes 3.91 quarts, so there is over half a quart sitting around in nooks and crannies inside the engine.

I blow compressed air into the oil filler to help drain oil. This works quite well, especially if you form a tight seal around the filler with your hand.

 

[Uncle Phil]

I drain my oil on the center stand til it stops dripping, change the filter, put a gallon back in and ride. I've only got 154,000+ miles on one ST1100, 115,000+ miles on another one, and closing in on 100,000+ miles on the third one.
Note : I do use the longer Purolator filter on all three. ;-)