ST1100 Wheel bearings - Special Tool for insertion - Some queries

[aSTerix]

I have had a look in the HSM and my bearings are:

Front : 6204UU
Rear : 6204UU & Dual- 20x47x20.6mm

Looking in the CSM I find that the tool for bearing insertion for 6204 is

07936-3710100 (Handle) & 07936-371020A (Weight),

EDIT: My Honda dealer came back and told me that these are invalid part numbers ! I posted another thread asking for alternative tool numbers

I have a few queries :

1) Am I correct in assuming that the "weight" part will press equally against inner and outer races on the bearing with the same force ?
2) Can I just order these two components (Handle & Weight) to do bearing INSERTION (The dealer already took the old ones out)
3) The CSM states that these work with bearings of 20mm ID and 42/47/52mm OD so can I assume that it will work on the Dual bearing also.

I do have the option to take the wheels back to the dealer to get the bearings fitted but I am concerned that they may use a generic driver and damage the bearings, would rather do it myself and know its done correctly

 

[Phil TK]

I have had a look in the HSM and my bearings are:

Front : 6204UU
Rear : 6204UU & Dual- 20x47x20.6mm

Looking in the CSM I find that the tool for bearing insertion for 6204 is

07936-3710100 (Handle) & 07936-371020A (Weight),

I have a few queries :

1) Am I correct in assuming that the "weight" part will press equally against inner and outer races on the bearing with the same force ?
2) Can I just order these two components (Handle & Weight) to do bearing INSERTION (The dealer already took the old ones out)
3) The CSM states that these work with bearings of 20mm ID and 42/47/52mm OD so can I assume that it will work on the Dual bearing also.

I do have the option to take the wheels back to the dealer to get the bearings fitted but I am concerned that they may use a generic driver and damage the bearings, would rather do it myself and know its done correctly

I'm about to change the wheel bearings on my ST1100 and envisage using the same method I've used for years on other bikes ie use a drift to bash out the old and then use a hammer and a socket (the same o/d as the bearing outer rim) to bash in the new.
Please don't tell me the Pan bearings need a special tool.

 

[ST1100Y]

I'm about to change the wheel bearings on my ST1100 and envisage using the same method I've used for years on other bikes ie use a drift to bash out the old and then use a hammer and a socket (the same o/d as the bearing outer rim) to bash in the new.

To a degree one can use the old bearings as driver to get the new ones (and the seals) in; those bearings in a deep bore might require another tool with a slightly smaller diameter to ease removal.
This can consist of a short piece of steel pipe or one abuses a (old) large socket from the toolkit...

 

[aSTerix]

I'm about to change the wheel bearings on my ST1100 and envisage using the same method I've used for years on other bikes ie use a drift to bash out the old and then use a hammer and a socket (the same o/d as the bearing outer rim) to bash in the new.
Please don't tell me the Pan bearings need a special tool.

From what I have read on this forum (and the other forum) it isn't straighforward because of the distance spacers and its seems to be critical that the inner and outer races of each bearing are driven in with the same force. (e.g. https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/front-wheel-bearings.167008/post-2128202 & https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/st1300-fitting-wheel-bearings-what-the-manuals-dont-tell.157453/post-2002848 )

This video at 3:50 (from https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/st1300-front-wheel-bearing-replacement-video.127162/post-1607480 ) shows why it is necessary to use the special driver , with the second bearing it is the distance spacer which you use as a stop for the bearing insertion ie it is the inner bearing race that makes contact:

If it isn't done correctly then the bearings do not last long, this concerns me to the extent that I don't even trust the Honda dealer to do it right.

I will be watching the responses with interest though because if it can be done using the old bearing and off the shelf tools I would be very happy !

 

[Bmacleod]

From what I have read on this forum (and the other forum) it isn't straighforward because of the distance collars and its seems to be critical that the inner and outer races of each bearing are driven in with the same force. (e.g. https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/front-wheel-bearings.167008/post-2128202 & https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/st1300-fitting-wheel-bearings-what-the-manuals-dont-tell.157453/post-2002848 )

This is very good info. You can drive in the first bearing by the outer race. After that I would fabricate a puller with heavy washers and a peice of threaded rod, close to the diameter of the I.D. of the bearing and spacer collar. The washers would be just a touch smaller than the O.D. of the bearing so as not to get hung up on the lip of the holes in the wheel. Put in the second bearing and pull it into the collar. If you wanted to take it to a more exact tolerance, you could use the axle as the threaded rod. This way, the collar will fit tightly between the bearings and not "rack". You would need to make a spacer between the nut and the washer, as the axle is not threaded all the way.

 

[tonythecarguy]

There are a few decent Chinese sets on amazon. I'm guessing the Honda tools would cost as much as the whole set. I used these and some threaded rod to install the front bearings on my st1300. they may not hold up to daily use but for occasional home use they seem to be acceptable quality. I've done bearings in the past with hammers, old split races, sockets, washers and/or pipe; using these are a joy in comparison.

8MILELAKE 52 in 1 Custom Bushing Driver Tool Set, Bearing, and Seal Driver Set Transmission Bushing Driver Set: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

8MILELAKE 52 in 1 Custom Bushing Driver Tool Set, Bearing, and Seal Driver Set Transmission Bushing Driver Set: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

 

[red one]

I'm about to change the wheel bearings on my ST1100 and envisage using the same method I've used for years on other bikes ie use a drift to bash out the old and then use a hammer and a socket (the same o/d as the bearing outer rim) to bash in the new.
Please don't tell me the Pan bearings need a special tool.

No you are ok. I watched my mechanic change my rear outer wheel bearing and he done it the same way. No special tool needed.

 

[aSTerix]

I'm about to change the wheel bearings on my ST1100 and envisage using the same method I've used for years on other bikes ie use a drift to bash out the old and then use a hammer and a socket (the same o/d as the bearing outer rim) to bash in the new.
Please don't tell me the Pan bearings need a special tool.

might be worth having a look at this PDF, it does a good job of explaining why bearing insertion needs to be done a bit differently, the PDF is for ST1300 but the principle also applies to ST1100 https://www.st-owners.com/forums/attachments/st1300-wheel-bearings-pdf.181080/

 

[JoeM]

Hi all,

I'm just new to the list. Too bad I didn't look here first before jumping into this work! I just changed my rear bearings this past week, and ended up falling into the common pitfall of seating both sides. Guess what? After that, the bearings wouldn't turn AT ALL. Bugger. I had that sinking feeling that I should have known better a split second after it happened.

I had started out by changing the rear tire, but noticed that upon disassembly the bearings in the driven splined hub were destroyed, probably due to water getting in. 3 of the 4 seals, and half of the balls were missing (egads!), so I got an All-Balls kit. I drove in one side to the bottom, installed the spacer, and used a threaded rod and an outer race to squeeze in the second side. I overtightened it, thinking it bottomed on the seat on the inside of the wheel. ERROR. I couldn't get the bearings to turn after that. I ended up sacrificing the 6204UU bearing (the thinner one) by banging it out. They are cheap and easily available, so I bought a new one. I have a lathe, so I turned a couple of aluminum pucks, 47mm OD and a 20mm pilot (about a thou under) and then used it with the threaded rod to press the new 6204 into place. Both inner and outer races on both sides were properly supported now, and I could immediately feel when the bearing+spacer+bearing stack clamped together. The bearings turn freely and the spacer is tight up against the inner races.

I think the threaded rod approach is safer than pounding the races, as there is a good amount of tactile feedback as the bearings are pressing in. Any tight spots indicate that the bearing is cocking to one side, and a little adjustment is required as you go. Not so with a BFH.

For the life of me I cannot understand why the manufacturer doesn't adjust the spacer length to the *EXACT* gap between the bearing seat surfaces. Hey, it ain't rocket science, considering all the super accurate tolerances that are required in so many places throughout a modern bike. I was wondering if anybody has ever tried shortening the spacer (with highly accurate measuring instruments and a lathe of course) to eliminate this potential for problems?


The failed hub bearings. I'm astonished I didn't feel anything wrong!


The driver pucks. Could be easily substituted by thick washers ground down to fit.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

STeve. Answered elsewhere already, but yes, the three Honda special tools for driving ST wheel bearings (driver, attachment, and pilot) apply force equally on inner and outer races.

John

 

[Ron]

The 1100 bearing are installed with force on the outer race.

The 1300 should be installed with equal force on the inner and outer races. Check frequently to assure the inner race is aligned with the spacer inside. Why did Honda make a wheel this way. I have never seen another application set up this way.

 

[aSTerix]

The 1100 bearing are installed with force on the outer race.

The 1300 should be installed with equal force on the inner and outer races. Check frequently to assure the inner race is aligned with the spacer inside. Why did Honda make a wheel this way. I have never seen another application set up this way.

Is the technique for knowing when to stop driving in the second bearing different for ST1100 versus ST1300 ?

As I understand it, for the ST1300 the second bearing is driven in until the inner race just touches the distance spacer, I was going to attempt the same technique for my ST1100

 

[aSTerix]

Hi all,

I ended up sacrificing the 6204UU bearing (the thinner one) by banging it out. They are cheap and easily available, so I bought a new one. I have a lathe, so I turned a couple of aluminum pucks, 47mm OD and a 20mm pilot (about a thou under) and then used it with the threaded rod to press the new 6204 into place. Both inner and outer races on both sides were properly supported now, and I could immediately feel when the bearing+spacer+bearing stack clamped together. The bearings turn freely and the spacer is tight up against the inner races.

The HSM mentions that the thin bearing must be inserted first (and therefore fully seated into the wheel) meaning that the thick bearing doesn't fully seat on the wheel but rather is a touch fit on the distance spacer.

By knocking out the thin bearing and then replacing it you effectively reversed the recommended procedure ie the thick bearing is fully seated and thin is on spacer or more likely both bearings are not seated.

Quite what this means I don't know because it is such a convoluted setup but probably worth checking them after a 1000 miles or so !

EDIT: next message in this thread from John Heath explains

Put the wrong bearing in first and the centre line of the wheel will be slightly off, which does all sorts of things, including potentially putting the disc rotors slightly out in relation to the fork mounted calipers.

 

[Al st1100]

My how a simple task can become so difficult.

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

I’ll try to simplify... You don’t want to place a side-load on the wheel bearings (inner and outer races not aligned perfectly in the same plane) causing early failure.

If there’s a gap between the inner races and the distance collar, torquing the axle will close that gap and will place a side-load on the bearing. [description, axle torquing effect]

If the distance between the bottom surfaces of bearing recesses is greater than the distance collar’s overall length, there will be a gap with both bearings fully seated. = side-load

If the distance collar is longer than the distance between the bottom of the bearings’ recesses, driving the second bearing too far will push the other bearing’s inner race out of alignment with its outer race. = side-load

Most Honda wheels are manufactured to precise tolerances so the bearings and distance collars are near perfectly matched when new bearings are simply “driven home,” without worry of imparting a side-load.

However you install new bearings, do it carefully, and then forget about it until the next time(s) you pull the wheel for new tires. JMNSHO

John

 

[Al st1100]

From what I have read on this forum (and the other forum) it isn't straighforward because of the distance spacers and its seems to be critical that the inner and outer races of each bearing are driven in with the same force. (e.g. https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/front-wheel-bearings.167008/post-2128202 & https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/st1300-fitting-wheel-bearings-what-the-manuals-dont-tell.157453/post-2002848 )

This video at 3:50 (from https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/st1300-front-wheel-bearing-replacement-video.127162/post-1607480 ) shows why it is necessary to use the special driver , with the second bearing it is the distance spacer which you use as a stop for the bearing insertion ie it is the inner bearing race that makes contact:

If it isn't done correctly then the bearings do not last long, this concerns me to the extent that I don't even trust the Honda dealer to do it right.

I will be watching the responses with interest though because if it can be done using the old bearing and off the shelf tools I would be very happy !

I watched the video and wondered why the bearings were put in the freezer. The amount of steel contraction at those temperatures is immeasurable. The better thing to do, if your worried about the fit would be to put the aluminum wheel in the sun or the oven. Aluminum expands about 10x more than steel and that all depends on the composition of it.https://sciencing.com/calculate-thermal-expansion-steel-2705.html