A couple of comments on this. First, because of the weight of the ST, you need to use the rear brake to get decent braking. If you're used to riding lighter bikes and not using the rear brake much, try using both and see if that improves things. I came from the sportbike world to the ST and that was my experience. Second, did you check the pads for any glazing?
ST1100 'Wooden' brakes
- Thread starter Johnny Rocco
- Start date
John OoSTerhuis
Life Is Good!
Have you tried a set of OEM Honda pads? Are your rotors OEM?
John
John
I have de-glazed the pads and the discs, both of which are OEM. Dwalby you are correct that I need to use more back brake than I'm used to, but in isolation the front brakes just seem to lack some bite. I was mainly curious to see if anyone had tried a smaller master before, and as I have one spare it will go on my "things to try" list. I'll post up my findings in due course. Thanks for the replies gentlemen.
Hmmm, when you say lack some bite, how bad are they? Again, because of its weight, the ST isn't going to be doing stoppies for you, but the front brakes should feel like they're relatively powerful on their own. I'd describe them as having plenty of bite, just that they're trying to stop a freight train worth of weight, so your description sounds a bit off to me.
wjbertrand
Ventura Highway
Compared to my ST13 the 1100 brakes are definitely somewhat wooden no matter what you do. Having said that, they'll still stop the bike well 120ft from 60 MPH.
-Jeff
-Jeff
I can get the pads making that nice hard-working hiss sound and driving the front wheel into the ground, but only with what I consider a more-than-decent squeeze. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they don't work, but I do wonder if they wouldn't be better and easier to use with more hydraulic leverage. I am spoiled the 4-piston calipers on my other bikes though. Actually I think that is biggest problem with owning and riding multiple bikes, that you are always mentally comparing one to the other and identifying "deficiencies" which in isolation would just be considered characteristics...
You haven't mentioned if you have stock rubber brake lines, or SS braided ones, which will improve the power/feel somewhat. Agree with your comment that compared to more sporty bikes the ST isn't going to win any performance comparisons. Just trying to figure out if you might have something that needs a little servicing to make it work a bit better.
ST1100Y
Site Supporter
hmm...
During last year's MSL my standard, non-ABS, '00 ST1100 made 4th best place in brake performance... within a group of +12 bikes, places 1 through 3 went to rigs with half the weight, at the time max 1,5 years old and equipped with the latest, bells & whistles edition ABS...
Not bad for a >25 years old design, isn't it... :razz:
I tried the master cylinder swap today Phil, and am happy to report that this did what I expected, made the brake lower effort/more powerful and with a slightly softer lever. I will be leaving my brake like this.
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
Terry - Thanks a bunch for the response. Since I already have an 'extra' ABSII master cylinder, I'll give this a whirl! Does anybody have the 'rebuild' kit part number for the ABSII front master cylinder handy?
Phil :
BTW, I just looked up the K&L part number for the rebuild kit. The early ABS models and the non-ABS models use the same kit ( same size MC ) , but the later ( ABSII ) models don't use the same kit. In fact, K&L doesn't have a kit for the 99-02 ABS model. So , it looks like you lucked out by having the ABSII MC.
But according to this Vintage Brake website , a 11 mm diameter MC would work even better for a non-ABS model. With a 12.7 mm diameter piston, the ratio improves from 14.9 to 18.1. But with a 11 mm diameter MC, the ratio would be 24.1 , which is closer to the recommended ratio.
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Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
Jim - Thanks for looking!
The genuine part number for the later ABS should be:
[h=1]45530-MAJ-G41 PISTON SET, FR.[/h]The same part number is used with many other Hondas like the CBR1100XX, VFR800Fi (where my master came from) and the ST1300.
[h=1]45530-MAJ-G41 PISTON SET, FR.[/h]The same part number is used with many other Hondas like the CBR1100XX, VFR800Fi (where my master came from) and the ST1300.
That is an interesting link, Jim. I'm sure the smaller MC would be better still but the 12.7mm is one I had to hand, and which is a visual perfect match for the original ST master. If I could find a black brake lever that would be even better (VFR levers are silver, and the lever to piston mechanism uses a small pushrod, unlike the ST).
One quote that I'm familiar with is the founder of Race Tech Suspension Paul Thede, who stated that " best you've ridden is the best you know". Ridden in isolation, the ST11 stock brake is fine and it will slow you down in a hurry as needed. But if you often switch bikes (as I do, owning two others) things like the brakes stick out as being less than ideal.
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
Terry - Thanks. I've got one laying around I need to rebuild so I'll use it.
Terry:
Yup, that 12.7 mm MC is an improvement. If I had one, I would use it, too.
But now I'm thinking of buying a new 11 mm Brembo MC since good quality 11mm MC's are tough to find on EBay.
A 11mm MC on my non-ABS ST1100 would give me a ratio of 24.1 : 1
Yup, that 12.7 mm MC is an improvement. If I had one, I would use it, too.
But now I'm thinking of buying a new 11 mm Brembo MC since good quality 11mm MC's are tough to find on EBay.
A 11mm MC on my non-ABS ST1100 would give me a ratio of 24.1 : 1
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I decided to install a smaller diameter MC and I settled for a Brembo 12mm diameter MC. from Bevel Heaven ( Ducati specialists ).
After I installed it , the lever definitely didn't feel wooden anymore. In fact, it felt like I didn't get all the air out of the system , but that wasn't the case.
I can pull the lever almost all the way to the handgrip now with the bike on the stand. But on the road, that would lock the wheel for sure, if I pulled it that far. It's amazing how much braking effect I can get by just barely pulling on the lever. I'm happy with the result. The ratio is now 20.25 : 1 .
I plan on installing the ST1100 OEM MC on my '83 GL1100I . It has a ratio of only 7:1 !!!
After I installed it , the lever definitely didn't feel wooden anymore. In fact, it felt like I didn't get all the air out of the system , but that wasn't the case.
I can pull the lever almost all the way to the handgrip now with the bike on the stand. But on the road, that would lock the wheel for sure, if I pulled it that far. It's amazing how much braking effect I can get by just barely pulling on the lever. I'm happy with the result. The ratio is now 20.25 : 1 .
I plan on installing the ST1100 OEM MC on my '83 GL1100I . It has a ratio of only 7:1 !!!
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That's all good news Jim. I know what you mean by the spongier feel at the lever, and that is probably inevitable with the age of the rubber hoses on our bikes as these do get more elastic with age, and some braided lines would be a good next step.
I've put a couple of thousand km on my ST since I put the smaller master on, and also added some EBC HH pads. I'm now entirely happy with the ST's braking power. I probably need to upgrade the front springs next.
I've put a couple of thousand km on my ST since I put the smaller master on, and also added some EBC HH pads. I'm now entirely happy with the ST's braking power. I probably need to upgrade the front springs next.
Terry :
I have an almost new set of braided brake lines custom made for my 4 inch handlebar risers by Brake Materials & Parts in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. I was very happy to find them. They do great work ( made exact copies, except for the extra length ) and their prices are about 75% of OEM.
I might get a slightly better feel with teflon lined braided stainless steel, but I'l settle for what I have.
I have an almost new set of braided brake lines custom made for my 4 inch handlebar risers by Brake Materials & Parts in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. I was very happy to find them. They do great work ( made exact copies, except for the extra length ) and their prices are about 75% of OEM.
I might get a slightly better feel with teflon lined braided stainless steel, but I'l settle for what I have.
ST1100Y
Site Supporter
Dunno...
Replaced the fluids on the '00 a couple of weeks ago... OEM lines... can move the lever like 1/2", that's it... rock solid pressure point, stops on a dime with 2 fingers only... grab it hard = locking the wheels...
I do flush with lots of new, quality brake fluid though... SuperDOT4...
Replaced the fluids on the '00 a couple of weeks ago... OEM lines... can move the lever like 1/2", that's it... rock solid pressure point, stops on a dime with 2 fingers only... grab it hard = locking the wheels...
I do flush with lots of new, quality brake fluid though... SuperDOT4...